دناه محاوره ممتعه بين عراقيين عبر الانترنت ..جرت يوم السبت 8 تشلاين الثاني 2003
Below is a lively conversation between two Iraqis "Inside and Outside " through MSN messenger
Outsider says:
ارجوك اكتب لي اكثر عن الوضع في العراق
Please tell me more about the real situatin in iraq.

Insider says:
احيانا احس انك تعرف مايجري هنا اكثر مني
Sometimes I feel like you know more about the situation here than I do.

Outsider says:
نحن من خلال الانترنت نعرف الكثير واكن نريد التاكد من ناس نثق بهم
I know some things, through the internet.
But I want to know about it from people that I trust


Insider says:
كنت قبل قليل اباشر بالكتابه عن اوضاع العراق حسب رايي ولكن مع الاسف انقطع الكهرباء ةلم اكم
Earlier I was writing to Baghdadee, when the power went off.

Outsider says:
سوف ينشروه لك ويمكنك وضع اسمك او اي اسم مستعار baghdadeeblog@yahoo.com يمكنك ارساله الى
You can send it to their email. use your name or a psudenum if you want .

Insider says:
لم احفظ الفايل مع الاسف لذلك ساعيد الكتابه وارسله لك
Unfortunately I didn't save the file, so i will rewite it and send it..

Outsider says:
هذا الويب سايت فيه مواضيع كثيره تهمك ويجب ايصال مشاعر وافكار العراقيين في الداخل الى الامريكيين.
الكثير ممنهم يرغبون برؤيه عراقيين من الداخل يكتبون لانهم مثلنا لايصدقون المحطات الامريكيه والتي غالبها معارضه لتحرير العراق وضد بوش
baghdadee site has a lot of good information. we need to get the common Iraqi feelings and ideas to Americans.
A lot of them don't trust the media, which might be against the libration of Iraq and bush.
They want to hear from Iraqis.

Insider says:
الجنود الامريكيين يتعاملون مع الناس بصوره جيده وخصوصا مع الشيشان (الشيعه) ولكن العراقيين لايعاملونهم بالمثل
اربما عملا بالمثل نارك ولاجنة هلي فكم عانوا من صدام واتباعه ونسوا ذلك الفضل للجيش الامريكي
American Soldiers are behaving very well with Iraqis and especially the chechnian (shia).
But some of the Iraqis don't treat the soldiers the same way. Maybe they follow our traditional saying, better a devil you know, be it saddam , than America.
They might have forgotten the great job the American soldiers did..

outsider says:
هل يوجد شيشان شيعه وهل يوجد شيشان في العراق
Is there chechnian shia and are ther any in Iraq?


Insider says:
كلا فمصطلح شيشان في العراق يعني شيعه ومصطلح سنغافوره يعني سنه ومصطلح برمودا يعني المثلث الغربي
No. No I meant chechnian of Iraq,
that is how we call shia here as acronym
and also we call sunnis Singhapore and bermoda for the triangle

Outsider says:
ها ها ها.. اول مره اسمع بالمصطلح .. اكتب عن هذه التفاصيل الصغيره
هل هذا راى الناس المحيطين بك ايظا

Ha aha ha.. First time to hear about such acronym ..
Please tell me the small details.
Is that feeling toward the American soldiers of yours ,
common among others?

Insider says:
القليل يجرؤ على قول هذا امام الملاء رغم احساس معظم الشيشان بذلك في داخلهم
اما برمودا فيكنون كل العداء للامركان لانهم لايطيقوا ان يسمعوا علي ولي الله في الاذان (رحم الله والدين بوش
Few can dare to express such positive feelings out loud but this is the real feeling is among Shias and Kurds,
not the Bermodees .
They can't afford hearing the shia prayer calling in the government local broadcasting station.
Thanks to Bush,, May Alah bless him.

Outsider says:
لماذا لايجرؤن ؟ هل هناك خوف من احد؟
Why don't they dare express themselves ? are they afraid of someone?

Insider says:
العراقيين قوم بعد صدام يخافون حتى من انفسهم وهم بحاجه الى بناء نفسي جديد
تخيل حكى لي صديق اليوم انه سمع واحد من برمودا يقول لو عاد صدام لضاعفنا المقابر الجماعيه الى اضعاف مضاعفه تخيل
Iraqis after what they saw from bermoda saddam, they are scared of thier own shadows....
They need a long process of rehabilation

Outsider says:
هل تعني انهم يخافون من احتمال مجئ صدام او مشابه له؟
ما هي الامور التي برأيك تساعدهم على الخروج من سجن الخوف
Do you mean that they are afraid of the possibility that Sadamm or someone similar is coming back again?
In your opinion , what are the ways to help them recoverr from this public fear?


Insider says:
حقيقة لااعلم ماهي الامور ولكن من طباع بعض الشيعه الجهله انهم يتبعون قياداتهم الدينيه بدون عقل وربما هنا مفتاح الحل
هناك قيادات واعيه جدا ومؤثره مثل حسين الصدر وهو شخصيه ممتازه
Actually, I don't know but some illetrate Shia might blindly follow their religios leader, maybe this is the key to it.
There are some like Sayed Husain Alsader. He is a very popular yet knowledgable and moderate religious leader.

Outsider says:
عندما نتكلم عن الشيعه هناك الحهله والمتعلمين .. ماهوا الرأي الغالب عند الطرفين في مجالسهم الحاصه؟
When you talk about Shia , there is a middlel class and an illetrate one
What is the general impression of each group in their private discussions?

Insider says:
لايتفقون على اي راي مطلقا (كل سبعه شكل)
they never agree, out of seven people, each has thier own opinion.

Outsider says:
صحيح ولكن ما هوا الانطباغ الغالب
That is correct, but what is the general feeling?
..
Insider says:
صدقني من الصعب الاجابه ولكن عموما بدات النقمه تزداد على الامريكان لانهم لايستعملون الشده في حل الامور
ولايعطون السلطه الكافيه لمجلس الحكم للتصرف
لايرحمو ولايخلون رحمة الله تنزل
Believe me there is none..
But things are going bad against the American soldiers because they aren't tough enough with the criminals.
And they don't give the GC the necessary authrizations.
They're not helping the situation any and they are not letting anyone else help out.


Outsider says:
لماذا برأيك يفعل الامريكان ذلك؟
Why do you think the American soldiers are acting this way?

Insider says:
لااعلم لماذا وماهي اهدافهم من ذلك
I have no idea what their goals are.

Outsider says:
يقال هنا ان السب انهم ربما يخافون من تجاوز لحقوق الانسان وهو امر لايبيحه القانون الامريكي فالعراق لازال تت الاحتلال واي تجاوز هو مسؤوليه المحتل
Maybe they are afraid of violating human rights laws, something that the American consititution does not permit.
Don't forget that Iraq is still under their responsibility.

I

Insider says:
انا ارى هذا غير معقول امام المشاكل التي تجري هنا وليعطوا الامر لمجلس الحكم اذا كانوا يخافون على حقوق الانسان
I think it is wrong for them to have all these problems in mind.... Let them pass it to the GC if they are afraid of violating human rights.

Outsider says:
ولكن المجلس لازال تحت الاحتلال وبالتالي فهي مسؤليه امريكيه
But the GC is still under the Occupation, and that means that it is the American's responsibility.

Insider says:
لذلك اقول ان تعطى صلاحيات الامن مئه بالمئه للعراقيين حتى لاتكون هناك مسؤوليه على امريكا
That is why I said let them get out of it..
And give 100% responsibility to the GC.

Outsider says:
نعم انا اوافقك الرأ ي .. واعتقد ان الامريكان سيغيرون سياستهم الخاطئه بعد حادثه الهوليكوبتر
I agree with you .. I think that america is changing her mind after the current incidents.

Outsider says:
الامور تسير بسرعه هنا .. وجماعه سنغافره يضغطون في وسائل الاعلام هنا على بوش لينهي اعتماده على الشيعه والتحول الى السنه
مركزين على ان الشيعه ضد امريكان ولا يرغبون بدوله ديموقراطيه
Things are going so fast..And the singapores' allies are the media so hard to make Bush change his mind about building democracy in Iraq and open the doors to the Singaporees to rule a gain.
Cliaming that Shias are against the Americans and they don't want a democratic government.

Insider says:
والكارثه ان صوتنا نبح وهم لايستوعبون مايجري حولهم
وخصوصا الجهله وجماعة القامات من الشيعه والحراميه والناس تعتبر الشيعه هم هؤلاء فقط

المشكله ان الانسان العراقي لايخيفه الوجه الاشقر الناعم مهما كان

That is what we get sick and tired , telling people about , But a lot of them don't know what is going on around them.
Especially the illetrats, and the fanatics and robbers that
people consider as Shias..
اThe problem is that every-day Iraqis are not intimidated by the soft blond faces ,
Whoever they may be.

Outsider says:
لذلك كتاباتك وكتابات غيرك ستكون مهمه جدا جيث يقرأ الامريكان هذا السايت الجديد ويريدون سماع صوتكم
يجب ان نعتبر الكتابه مساهمتنا في تحرير العراق .. هذه المساهمه التي ظلت مسجونه كل هذه الاعوام
That is why your writing and others' writings are very important, as a lot of Americans are reading them on the web.
We need to know that writing is our contribution to the liberation of Iraq.. some thing that we had missed for decades..

Insider says:
نعم مفهوم هذا سلاحنا الوحيد
ساطلب من احمد كذلك في هذا الموضوع فراينا متشابه وعنده انترنت
Yes, writing is our only weapon
I will ask Ahmed to do so as well. He has the same mind frame.



Outsider says:
ليس المهم ان يكتب من هو مشابه لك فقط فحتى المعارضون مهم سماع صوتهم لفهم لماذا لايريدون عراق ديموقراطي ومن ماذا يخافون
I think that those who don't agree with you should also write.
It is important to hear all opinions to understand why they are against democracy.


Insider says:
ارجو ان تسمع راي سلام مثلا في هذا الموضوع الذي هو انعكاس لراي خواله وهو مهم جدا لتعرف اختلاف الافكار هنا
You need to hear Salam's opinion on this...it's a reflection of his uncles', which is important to know the differences between opinions over here.

Outsider says:
ماهو وضع مقتدى .. هل صحيح غير رأيه واصبح اكثر عقلانيه؟
What about Mqtada.. it seems he is changing and become more reasonable.

Insider says:
مقتدى عقل والكلام يدور على ان الامريكان واعدوه بشي
Yes that is right and people say that he got some promises from the Americans.

Outsider says:
هل تتصور انه بسبب الامريكان ام بسبب الضغط عليه من قبل الحوزه؟
Insider says:
ليس للحوزه علاقه بالموضوع فحتى معارضة الحوزه معارضه سلميه جدا
I don't think Hawza has anything to do with this, they are calling for passive resistance.

Outsider says:
هل تمانع ان ارسل نسخه من حديثنا الى السايت مع ترجمه باللانكليزي.. ه
هل ترى حذف اة تعديل لبعض المقاطع
Do you mind if i send this to Baghdadee
Do you want me to erase some parts?

Insider says:
لك كل الحريه فافعل ماشئت
Please feel free to do so..

الظالم والمظلوم في عراق اليوم
نسمع اخبارا كثيره ممن عادوا من العراق وخصوصا ممنكان لهم غيبه طويله عن الوطن .
وتتباين الاقوال الى حد التناقض فمنهم من يقول انه جنه ما بعده جنه ومنهم من يصور الوضع على انه جحيم لايطاق كما تفعل فضائيات العرب.
ولكني استنتجت في نهايه المطاف حقيقه ثابته وهي ان المناطق التي عانت من ظلم النظام البائد هي الان في احسن حال وهم ينعمون بالحريه التي افتقدوها لمده 35 سنه بعد ان عاشوا ضلما واضطهادا لم يعشه الا قوم فرعون . اما اليوم فانهم قد وجدوا متنفسا يستنشقون به املا .
واما المناطق التي كانت تعيش على دماء غيرها مستفيده من ذاك النظام دون وجه حق وجدوا انفسهم الان خارج السرب بعد ان كانوا من مدللي النظام والان ما لهم (شغله ولا مشغله) لانهم لا يعرفون غير لغه الدم التي يجيدونها بحرفيه والان يريد العراق ان يعيد بناء نفسه بلغه اخرى غريبه وبعيده جدا عن ما يفكر به هؤلاء ولذلك سيكون جحيما لايطاق.
وعليه قل لي ما هو الوضع بالعراق لاقول لك من أي منطقه انت .

بهلول الحكيم


Submitted by: bahlol alhakem [email]
Thursday, 11.20.2003 @ 9:53 PM

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Greetings All

One of the great things about America is that all voices can speak up and put forth their proposed solutions to any particular problem...Out of those many voices, a solution will come forward. The solution to any problem must arise first from the mind of man, and then to the pen.


"e pluribus unum"

Translated means: Out of many, one.

We are not only just a "melting pot" of skin colors, but also of ideas, problems and solutions... To all my Iraqi friends, I encourage you *all* to voice not just the problems you face, but also always to consider and pose a posible solution to that problem...Voice the solution you propose...Out of your many voices will come a reasoned answer. That answer is always in the mind of man, the world waits to hear those answers and to help implement those solutions (Well, at least we in the United States are trying to help)

Remember well, these days, those that want you to be free, and those who's care and love would have you still under the thumb of Saddam.

We do realize that there are those among you whom you would kill without remorse for the evil they have committed...We are not the best judge of the so many of those among you deserving of punishment, deserving of removal from your society. You the Iraqi people are the best judge of those among you. I imagine it would be difficult for and Iraqi to come to America and carefully discern the innocent from the guilty...to discern a man's lie from another man's truth...and so it is with us.

We would much rather have countries ruled by law, and not by men. Law is the collective force of a gathering of men...with none above nor below the law...but how are we to efficiently and so quickly make judgement upon people in a foreign land? To judge the innocent from the liar?

In times past one government would pas it's own judgement against another government, and meet out its punishment upon all...even the innocent. One government would punish another by breaking the will of all citizens...to so desolate the citizens of another country...

We are not that country.

We would rather save the life of the innocent and hunt the truly evil into the next day, than to "solve" our problem by utterly destroying a country...And so it is on a smaller level in Iraq now...we know that we could "step over the line" and be harsh, but those judgements and our actions are neccesarily slower than we all would like.

As we train more Iraqi Police and security forces, this will be less an issue than it is today...but the God's honest truth is that you can only train so many people only so much in one day with only so many people.
Submitted by: Orbit Rain [email] [web]
Sunday, 11.16.2003 @ 1:26 PM

Not that I speak arabic, but I think you you translated something incorrectly. You mention "acronyms" above, but I'm pretty sure you mean pseudonyms or nick-names. (Acronyms are taking the first letter of every word, like NASA, or CENTCOM, or CPA)
Submitted by: RussSchultz [web]
Saturday, 11.15.2003 @ 11:29 AM

[SIZE=7]ana interesting conversation,yet very ironic...

Please explain. I guess I do not see the irony.

Many states in the US have the death penalty as a lawful punishment for crimes of capital murder with extenuating circumstances. But, that is not the case for any of our other allies in the Coalition. The laws of these nations prohibit the use of the death penalty. For this reason, as long as the Coalition is considered the official government of Iraq, trials for Saddam's henchmen cannot be held if Iraqis expect the death penalty to be an available punishment. Truly these men should be punished by a justice system of the Iraqi people. This must wait until the sovereignty of Iraq is transferred back to Iraqi hands, hopefully in June.

Ironic ? I say something is a bit..."odd" about that informative conversation.
hmm
This is my first post.
just stopped by in my travels



Hello everyone.

Airedale dawg

This is so interesting. I've learned more about Iraq from an hour reading this site than months of reading and watching news.

This is my first post. I'm going to pay a lot of attention to this site because it's very important. I hope I don't become a pest by writing too long. Sometimes I do that.

By the way I'm a journalist working for a small newspaper in Texas.

So far I'm very impressed with you Iraqis. You're going to make the world proud!

http://www.elaph.com/ElaphLiterature/2005/2/39945.htm

In arabic
A very intersting story by a polish journalist who lived in Iraq for couple of months talking to different people..
A lot of findings and exposure to some day to day life in Iraq today