الدستور المعركه الكبرى..... الفدراليه,لماذا

[tajer]

Advocates of an Iranian-style Islamic republic were blunt: "The first article in a democracy is the rule of the majority over the minority," Sayyid Hadi Modarresi, one of Karbala's most influential clerics, told the Arabic daily Al-Hayah.

 

I have friends in Kerbala, to my understanding Sayyid Hadi is not an Iranian-style republic clergy.. Indeed he is pro the SHirazi's school of thought which is anti current Iranian government.. As for his influence in Kerbala.. He had started his office in Kerbala after the fall of Saddam, his main followers are among those Kerbalaian who were expeled by Saddam during the eaightees.. So his influence is very limited.. Not as to what the writer mentioned..

 

In Kerbala, the majority are following Alsystani, who doesn't recongnize the Scholar certificate of Mr. Mudersi as Ayatoula.. That is why Mr. Muderise established a new school "Hawza" in Kerbala..

 

The above might be too much details for the post, but I wanted to correct some of the writer's information..

[tajer]

The party-slate system will not bolster representation. Many Iraqis share ethnicity but not local interests. Tel Afar, a town of 160,000 east of Mosul, is 95 percent Shiite Turkmen. Its Turkish-speaking residents have little in common with Turkmen in Erbil or Kirkuk. The party-slate system might also undercut religious freedom. Christians, for example, represent less than 3 percent of Iraq's population. They remain concentrated in towns such as Alqosh, Ainkawa and Duhok. Many Christians do not support parties such as the Assyrian Democratic Movement. Without district-based elections, they may find themselves without representation. Smaller religious communities that do not have their own political parties but who live in clustered districts may find themselves without political representation in the important constitutional process.

Very interesting point by the writer..

I have some questions though

1- Is it true that party-stale will be in favours of large parties than small ones?

2- So elction will be for the parties.. If my understanding is correct, then there will be votes for each party, the question is how this will be mapped to the no. of seats.. Asumme party A gets 100 thousand vote out of total of 1 million voters, while party B gets 10 thousand.. What will be no. of seats to each? is this be different when the total no. of candidate s is different than the no. of real voters?

 

Would some one help me understand it..

[Guest مستفسر]

http://64.27.100.63/ElaphWeb/Politics/2004/7/724.htm

كم ممتع ان نرى العراقييون يستطلعون طريقهم نحو الحياه.. ما لفت انتباهب في المقال اعلاه هو " واصغر الاعضاء سنا من النساء"

كم جميل انت ياعراق.. اعتقد ان المنافسه ستكون قاسيه بين النساء.. كم هي الحال بين الرجال الاكبر سنا!!

 

وانتهت اللجنة التحضيرية من تشكيل اللجان الفرعية في المحافظات التي تضم الواحدة سبعة أعضاء بينهم إثنان من القضاة وممثلاً عن

المحافظة واكبر اعضاء مجلس المحافظة سناً من الرجال واصغر اعضاء المحافظة سناً من النساء وعضوان من اللجنة التحضيرية من محافظة اخرى وفتحت باب الترشيح لعضوية المؤتمر .

 

ياتي

[captcouv]

It has been my experience with Shia 'in the street' that they have seen what the theorcracy in Iran has wrought an they want no part of it. SCIRI, Hawza, and Sadr have the organization and talent to monopolize the public debate, but the people (in a true secret and fair ballot) will vote secularly.

[J Thomas]

So elction will be for the parties.. If my understanding is correct, then there will be votes for each party, the question is how this will be mapped to the no. of seats.. Asumme party A gets 100 thousand vote out of total of 1 million voters, while party B gets 10 thousand.. What will be no. of seats to each? is this be different when the total no. of candidate s is different than the no. of real voters?

I can say only what I understood from the interim agreement. The permanent constitution might be different.

 

I believe there will be 270 seats in the assembly. Say that the voting population of iraq is 27 million. Then each seat is worth a hundred thousand votes.

 

So a party that gets 1 million votes will have its top ten representatives in the assembly. A party that gets a hundred thousand votes will get its top guy in the assembly. A party that gets ten thousand votes will not get into the assembly.

 

Say that ten different parties get 10,000 votes each. Then the other parties are likely to have 269 representatives and one of the seats is not filled. I don't know what is supposed to happen in that case.

[Guest Guest_mutergem]

http://www.alrafidayn.com/Story/News/N_27_07_04_1.html

 

In Arabic.. an interview with Dr. Brehimi, the spokesman of the new temporary Iraqi counsil.. He said that almost all the preparations is done to get the 1000 members who are either appointed by different parties or ellected "700"..

He said that the counscil committe refused a late demand by IN to postpone the council for another month.. He commented that the UN had letf us working alone without help, as they promised earlier and then they come to ask such unrealistic request.. He said that " we yold them that we are a full soverin country and we decide what is the good timming for such"..

He said that the three parties " Arab nationilist, Alsader and Sunni clergi commitee will be be asked one more time to join the council..

[Guest Guest_Tajer]

http://www.elaph.com/Politics/2004/8/5421.htm

 

In Arabic.. The list of the new 81 memberINC..

[Guest Guest_Tajer]

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

 

Great article.. Does this remind us with some thing? I am seeing the born of real democratic system.. Let us remeber the first American assembly..

It is a historical moment that media is blocking..

 

 

Thursday, August 19, 2004

National Council is born

Watching the proceedings of the controversial National Conference for the last three days, most of it transmitted live on Al-Iraqiya channel, has been an enjoyable experience. I have to mention here that the majority of Iraqis are unfamiliar with the rules of parliamentary sessions. The closest thing we had to a parliament was abolished in 1958 with the introduction of 'Revolutionary' Republican rule. Whatever the level of political maturity Iraqis had accumulated at that stage, it slowly disintegrated year after year under the successive totalitarian ('Revolutionary') regimes. Today, 45 years later, we are back again at point zero.

 

Under Ba'athist rule, proceedings from the so-called National Council were televised from time to time. The Revolutionary Command Council was the sole source of legislation, so basically the National Council had no other function but to approve and stamp the endless amendments. Votes were always unanimous. It was a joke really. A farce.

 

The National Conference also looks like a farce on the surface, but of a totally different kind. Here you have 1000-1300 delegates from all over Iraq, from all ethnicities, religions, sects and social backgrounds. A curious mix of people all put together in one room to try and choose 81 individuals that are supposed to represent Iraqis.

 

Young and old clerics in black and white turbans, groomed men in suits and carefully pressed shirts, tribal Sheikhs traditionally dressed, women shrouded in black abayas, others in the latest hairdressing style and glamorous fashion trends and some in headscarfs of every imaginable colour. Doctors, dentists, lawyers, judges, engineers, professors, teachers, generals, businessmen, artists, actors, activists, priests, imams, even sportsmen and a musician.

 

Several parties and groups had already boycotted the conference in advance arguing that it was a mere cover for the interim government and the occupation. Sadr's movement, the Associaion of Muslim Scholars, Imam Al-Khalisi's group, the Kurdish Islamic Movement and a coalition of about ten Pan-Arab and Nasserite political parties adopted this viewpoint. Other groups were critical of the voting process in the governorates weeks ago accusing the preparatory committee and governmental officials of behind the scenes manipulation and favouritism in the (s)election of delegates. Nevertheless, some chose to participate in the conference despite these objections.

 

Independents constituted the majority of the delegates, which shouldn't be surprising given the fact that the majority of Iraqis are distrustful of political parties, especially when theycontinue to pop up every day by the dozen with each claiming to represent a 'wide section of Iraqis' when in fact they represent only themselves. Also, the behaviour of major political parties that were represented in the defunct GC has not been very impressive, and their attempts to dominate the National Conference as well as the interim government is indeed troubling.

 

The remaining 19 former GC members that were not represented in the interim government have been appointed already to the National Council amid widespread opposition from Iraqis. And if that was not enough they have made painstaking attempts to ensure that the majority of the remaining 81 members of the council were members of their respective parties or at least supporters.

 

The conference proceedings were interesting as I said. What became known as 'the list' was the main point of dispute between delegates and the preparatory committee as well as the voting procedure itself. Several delegates described it as unfair and accussed the committe of a conspiracy. There was a list of delegates from both points of view who were supposed to state their opinions in turn. It started out fine, then other delegates started interrupting others, walkouts, delegates swearing and shaking fists at each other amid applause or laughter from the conference, it almost came to blows at one point. Here is an example:

 

[Delegate speaking to the conference]: "The 'list' is an act of dictatorship, this is unacceptable. I am going to--" [someone taps at a microphone to attract attention and starts his own speech reading from 2 or 3 pages in his hand]

 

[First delegate's eyes almost pop out of his face in disbelief]:"Excuse me sir, it was my turn.." [interrupting delegate ignores him and continues to give his speech]

 

[he gets applause from the crowd]

 

First delegate starts shouting: "This is unbelievable. Sir? SIR?? It's my turn. Can't you understand?" [starts tapping frantically at his microphone]

 

Second delegate: "Yes, but they ignored my turn as well. I have been waiting for a long time." [continues to read]

 

President of the committee: "This is outrageous. Sir, sir. You.. yes you. Get seated please. Allow others a chance." [bangs on the table] "What are you doing on the stage??" [he almost screams at someone behind him] "People please if you have a suggestion or something, write it down on a paper.. We can't continue like this."

 

[commotion in the hall]

 

First delegate: "I don't believe this. SIR? Don't you have any decency at all?"

 

[Laughter in the hall followed by applause]

 

This situation continued for hours. People kept interrupting each other. Everyone wanted a chance to give fiery speeches. Another interesting incident was the objection of several fundamental delegates to one of the posters in the hall. It had half the face of a pretty (unveiled) Iraqi women on it representing the role of Iraqi women. They demanded the poster to be removed because 'it was improper'. Some commotion followed and one woman stood up and harshly addressed the objectors, she said that if they removed the poster now they might as well remove the women from the conference. She was met with a standing ovation from the audience and the poster remained. Another funny occasion was when the committee president asked delegates to vote for or against 'the list' by raising their hands. Someone shouted that this was silly and very undemocratic. The supporters raised their hands and on realising that they were the majority started clapping their hands in mid air. It was one of the funniest scenes and was followed with more walkouts. Someone described 'the list' as 'the government's list'.

 

At the end of the third day the voting was postponed and there was an agreement that independents submit their own lists to the committee for an open vote. Today, after much coming and going and more walkouts, one list was submitted. Delegates were supposed to vote for one of the lists. Ballot boxes were placed but after a while the list was withdrawn suddenly by its submitters leaving 'the list' uncontested and it appeared that it was approved at last by the majority of delegates. Time constraint and the security situation forced this last moment decision, it was almost 10 pm and delegates were complaining. The submitted list did not meet the standards set by the judges in the preparatory committee, the number of women was less than 25 and some minorities were not represented in it. The submitters announced that they withdrew their list and voted for 'the list' (which was by now described as 'the list of national unity') in order for the conference to succeed.

 

National Council members were selected from three categories; representatives from 18 governorates, civil society organisations, and Iraqi tribes. Members should be no less than 35 years old and should at least hold a secondary school degree. The role of the National Council is advisory to the interim government and the preparation for elections in January 2005 of a legislative National Assembly consisting of 275 members. The National Assembly shall elect a presidential council of three members, this council in turn selects a prime minister and a cabinet.

[Guest Guest]

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

 

Great article.. Does this remind us with some thing? I am seeing the born of real democratic system.. Let us remeber the first American assembly..

It is a historical moment that media is blocking..

 

 

Thursday, August 19, 2004

National Council is born

Watching the proceedings of the controversial National Conference for the last three days, most of it transmitted live on Al-Iraqiya channel, has been an enjoyable experience. I have to mention here that the majority of Iraqis are unfamiliar with the rules of parliamentary sessions. The closest thing we had to a parliament was abolished in 1958 with the introduction of 'Revolutionary' Republican rule. Whatever the level of political maturity Iraqis had accumulated at that stage, it slowly disintegrated year after year under the successive totalitarian ('Revolutionary') regimes. Today, 45 years later, we are back again at point zero.

 

Under Ba'athist rule, proceedings from the so-called National Council were televised from time to time. The Revolutionary Command Council was the sole source of legislation, so basically the National Council had no other function but to approve and stamp the endless amendments. Votes were always unanimous. It was a joke really. A farce.

 

The National Conference also looks like a farce on the surface, but of a totally different kind. Here you have 1000-1300 delegates from all over Iraq, from all ethnicities, religions, sects and social backgrounds. A curious mix of people all put together in one room to try and choose 81 individuals that are supposed to represent Iraqis.

 

Young and old clerics in black and white turbans, groomed men in suits and carefully pressed shirts, tribal Sheikhs traditionally dressed, women shrouded in black abayas, others in the latest hairdressing style and glamorous fashion trends and some in headscarfs of every imaginable colour. Doctors, dentists, lawyers, judges, engineers, professors, teachers, generals, businessmen, artists, actors, activists, priests, imams, even sportsmen and a musician.

 

Several parties and groups had already boycotted the conference in advance arguing that it was a mere cover for the interim government and the occupation. Sadr's movement, the Associaion of Muslim Scholars, Imam Al-Khalisi's group, the Kurdish Islamic Movement and a coalition of about ten Pan-Arab and Nasserite political parties adopted this viewpoint. Other groups were critical of the voting process in the governorates weeks ago accusing the preparatory committee and governmental officials of behind the scenes manipulation and favouritism in the (s)election of delegates. Nevertheless, some chose to participate in the conference despite these objections.

 

Independents constituted the majority of the delegates, which shouldn't be surprising given the fact that the majority of Iraqis are distrustful of political parties, especially when theycontinue to pop up every day by the dozen with each claiming to represent a 'wide section of Iraqis' when in fact they represent only themselves. Also, the behaviour of major political parties that were represented in the defunct GC has not been very impressive, and their attempts to dominate the National Conference as well as the interim government is indeed troubling.

 

The remaining 19 former GC members that were not represented in the interim government have been appointed already to the National Council amid widespread opposition from Iraqis. And if that was not enough they have made painstaking attempts to ensure that the majority of the remaining 81 members of the council were members of their respective parties or at least supporters.

 

The conference proceedings were interesting as I said. What became known as 'the list' was the main point of dispute between delegates and the preparatory committee as well as the voting procedure itself. Several delegates described it as unfair and accussed the committe of a conspiracy. There was a list of delegates from both points of view who were supposed to state their opinions in turn. It started out fine, then other delegates started interrupting others, walkouts, delegates swearing and shaking fists at each other amid applause or laughter from the conference, it almost came to blows at one point. Here is an example:

 

[Delegate speaking to the conference]: "The 'list' is an act of dictatorship, this is unacceptable. I am going to--" [someone taps at a microphone to attract attention and starts his own speech reading from 2 or 3 pages in his hand]

 

[First delegate's eyes almost pop out of his face in disbelief]:"Excuse me sir, it was my turn.." [interrupting delegate ignores him and continues to give his speech]

 

[he gets applause from the crowd]

 

First delegate starts shouting: "This is unbelievable. Sir? SIR?? It's my turn. Can't you understand?" [starts tapping frantically at his microphone]

 

Second delegate: "Yes, but they ignored my turn as well. I have been waiting for a long time." [continues to read]

 

President of the committee: "This is outrageous. Sir, sir. You.. yes you. Get seated please. Allow others a chance." [bangs on the table] "What are you doing on the stage??" [he almost screams at someone behind him] "People please if you have a suggestion or something, write it down on a paper.. We can't continue like this."

 

[commotion in the hall]

 

First delegate: "I don't believe this. SIR? Don't you have any decency at all?"

 

[Laughter in the hall followed by applause]

 

This situation continued for hours. People kept interrupting each other. Everyone wanted a chance to give fiery speeches. Another interesting incident was the objection of several fundamental delegates to one of the posters in the hall. It had half the face of a pretty (unveiled) Iraqi women on it representing the role of Iraqi women. They demanded the poster to be removed because 'it was improper'. Some commotion followed and one woman stood up and harshly addressed the objectors, she said that if they removed the poster now they might as well remove the women from the conference. She was met with a standing ovation from the audience and the poster remained. Another funny occasion was when the committee president asked delegates to vote for or against 'the list' by raising their hands. Someone shouted that this was silly and very undemocratic. The supporters raised their hands and on realising that they were the majority started clapping their hands in mid air. It was one of the funniest scenes and was followed with more walkouts. Someone described 'the list' as 'the government's list'.

 

At the end of the third day the voting was postponed and there was an agreement that independents submit their own lists to the committee for an open vote. Today, after much coming and going and more walkouts, one list was submitted. Delegates were supposed to vote for one of the lists. Ballot boxes were placed but after a while the list was withdrawn suddenly by its submitters leaving 'the list' uncontested and it appeared that it was approved at last by the majority of delegates. Time constraint and the security situation forced this last moment decision, it was almost 10 pm and delegates were complaining. The submitted list did not meet the standards set by the judges in the preparatory committee, the number of women was less than 25 and some minorities were not represented in it. The submitters announced that they withdrew their list and voted for 'the list' (which was by now described as 'the list of national unity') in order for the conference to succeed.

 

National Council members were selected from three categories; representatives from 18 governorates, civil society organisations, and Iraqi tribes. Members should be no less than 35 years old and should at least hold a secondary school degree. The role of the National Council is advisory to the interim government and the preparation for elections in January 2005 of a legislative National Assembly consisting of 275 members. The National Assembly shall elect a presidential council of three members, this council in turn selects a prime minister and a cabinet.

test

[Guest Mustefser]

http://www.daralhayat.com/opinion/09-2004/...7607/story.html

 

In Arabic.. Very intersting article BY a Libanies famous writer.. Asking Arabs to learn from the Iraqi experiences of how to build a democracy dispite all dificulties and not to work on behalf remotely of them.. Arab should support Iraqis choices not to tell them what right or wrong..

 

المعادون للإمبريالية» ومستقبل العراق

كريم مروة    الحياة    2004/09/2

 

الجدل الدائر اليوم بكثافة خارج العراق، حول مستقبل هذا البلد العربي الكثيرة محنه في التاريخ القديم والحديث، يفوق ويعلو، بحدته وبصخبه المثيرين للدهشة، ذلك الجدل الطبيعي الدائر داخل العراق بين قواه الحية حول مستقبل هذا البلد العربي. والملفت للنظر ان هذه المفارقة لا تثير اي استغراب او اي تساؤل عند بعض الاشقاء العرب، في السلطات القائمة وردائفها، وفي بعض قوى الاعتراض على تلك السلطات. بل هم يعتبرون، من موقع «الحريص» على القضية القومية وعلى المصالح العامة للأمة، ان بالامكان ان يرى القومي من بعيد ما لا يراه ابن البلد، الذي تشده همومه ومصالحه المحلية الى حاضره، فتحجب الشجرة التي تظلله الغابة بكاملها! وقد بات معروفاً ان الشعب الفلسطيني قد دفع الثمن الباهظ لمثل هذا المنطق «القومي» العدمي، على امتداد تاريخ مأساته الطويل الذي يتجاوز نصف قرن ونيف من الزمن.

[Guest Guest_tajer]

http://www.nahrain.com/d/news/04/09/06/puk0906b.html

The new parliment "National confrence" ellected it's nine commitees.. Dr. Chalabi came as the first in the economy committe..

[Guest Guest_Tajer]

http://www.nahrain.com/d/news/04/09/17/srq0917a.html

In Arabic.. A report in London Alsharq Alawsat newspaper from Basrah.. There is growing support for the Fedral Iraq.. People in the South of the three main provinces of Basrah-Misan and Nasiria thought it would be better for them to join a fedral state as already aproved by the interm law.

They said that while two third of Iraqi reveneu ids comming from these provinces, very limited portion is going to reconstruction in them.

[Guest Guest_Tajer]

http://www.alwatan.com.kw/arb/#2004090000020860

 

In Arabic.. Intersting article about the ellection procedures..

Two articles , one aginst the one Iraqi ellection zone, the other with

[Guest Guest_Tajer]

http://www.alwatan.com.kw/arb/#2004090000020859

 

In Arabic.. Another intesting article about the problems that faced the current INC..

 

The writer thought that the last INC ellection proved the power of the main parties in roling the political system in Iraq.

[Guest Guest_Tajer]

Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (search), Bush's Democratic opponent in the race for the White House, held a press briefing to counter that picture of Iraq being painted.

 

"The United States and the Iraqis have retreated from whole areas of Iraq," Kerry told reporters outside a Columbus firehouse, calling Iraq a "magnet for terrorism." "There are no-go zones in Iraq today. You can't hold an election in a no-go zone."

 

But Allawi said that 14 to 15 out of Iraq's 18 provinces are "completely safe," and there are only three provinces that contain "pockets of insurgents, pockets of terrorists who are acting there and are moving to inflict damage elsewhere in the country."

 

Worse than what Mr. Kerry said, I heard yesterday one of democrat senitors saying in a hearing that the no-go zones are including the biggest cities in Iraq.. I don't know if he is refring to the only no-go city of Fallouja.. Just for those who might not know Iraq.. Falouga is just like the size of Oakland in a country as big as California.

 

It is a small city in the province of Alnbar that is the 95% desrted unpopulated provice with capitol of Ramadee.. Flouga is even samaller to be a capitol of that desserted provice..

 

It might be the biggest in the eys of terrorists in the world today.. The only one that might share such view is Aljezera and some folks in democratic party.!1