DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ الديموقراطيه في العراق

[Guest Mustefser]

They will do whatever they think is best. They know that US is politically trapped into doing and supporting whatever they want.

 

I would put it this way

 

They will do whatever they think is best. They know that US and IRAQ are both politically trapped into doing and supporting whatever GOOD for the new democracy!

[Guest Mustefser]

From a brother Egyptian blogger http://bigpharaoh.blogspot.com/

 

Iraqi New Prime Minister Hands Me 50 Egyptian Pounds!!

 

It might be a little bit later but I really want to share this. Right before the Iraqi elections a colleague at work told me that he is sure that "Allawi will be reinstalled by the Americans after the elections end and that these elections are a complete shame". "No, Sistani's list will win big time and Allawi will lose his job" I told him.

 

"Allawi is America's puppet, they will never accept someone with a religious background to become PM. You will see, after these shame and fraudulent elections, Allawi will still be enthroned by his American masters" he reiterated.

 

"I don't think so. Iraq will have a change of power after the elections period,

something we are not used to in the Arab world. You wanna bet that Allawi will

lose his job? 50 pounds OK?" I shot back.

 

"OK. 50 pounds" he answered.

 

Well, last Thursday Ibrahim Jaffari was sworn in and I got my 50 pounds ($8.6).

[Furat]

آليت على نفسي أن أصبر قليلاً بعد أن كتبت مقالتي القصيرة حول مذبحة ألحله كي أعطي لنفسي فرصة أبتعد فيها عن التجليات النفسية والعاطفية كي لا تطغي على ما أكتب ، هذا من جانب . من ناحية أخرى أراقب عن كثب كل ما يكتب حول هذا الموضوع وردود الأفعال حوله ليس من باب خصوصية هذا الموضوع لي فكل ألم عراقي يحز في كثيرا مهما كانت الجهة التي يصيبها قدر الله سبحانه وتعالى فكلنا للعراق والعراق فوق كل شئ .

1- كلمة عتب مريرة أقولها إلى د. منور غياض آل ربيعات حول استخدامه ( هب ودب) في كتابته حول الأحداث والتساؤلات التي أثيرت حول الأردن فيما يتعلق بمذبحة ألحله، فالعراقيون عريقون في كل شئ في خدمة الإنسانية ولا يليق بمحلل سياسي أن يستخدم مثل هذا اللفظ تجاه العراقيين.

2- لا أعرف مصدر الخبر الكاذب حول قتل طالبين أردنيين في الحلة، فهذا ليس من شيمة أهل الحلة المسالمين، والأخبار تردني أول بأول من هناك.

3- يقول شقيق الإرهابي ألبنا أن عبد الله بن سبأ هو مؤسس المذهب الشيعي وأن الحسين عليه السلام قد قتله شيعته. لا أريد ألخوض في هذا الموضوع فعلماء الشيعة الأفاضل قد أفاضوا في تبيان الحق في مثل هذه الأمور، بل يمكن للمدعو أن يراجع أصحاب الضمائر في بلدته, في عمان، في الكرك أن يقولوا له الحقيقة التي يخفوها ويأبى الله سبحانه وتعالى إلا أن تظهر للوجود وستعم البشرية أنشاء الله بظهور قائم آل محمد (عجل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف)، إنما أسئل المدعو نصير ألبنا أن يسمي لي واحداً فقط من هؤلاء الشيعة الذين شاركوا في دم ريحانة الرسول (صلوات الله عليهم أجمعين).

4- يقول نصير ألبنا أنه سمع من وكالات ألأنباء أن القتلى من ألأمريكان، وأنا أقول له أنه لا يوجد في ألحله قوات أمريكية بل هي قوات بولندية، من جانب آخر فان القتلى والجرحى كلهم من عامة الناس أو بالاحرى من فقرائهم ولولا لطف الباري عز وجل بوجود الجدار الفاصل عن الشارع العام لكانت المصيبة أدهى وأمر، فهل هذا جزاء الإحسان يا من تقرأ ون كتاب الله عزوجل.

5- أسقطت غالبية الدول الأوربية الديون المتراكمة على العراق بسبب أخوتنا العرب ويتمتع بها إخواننا العرب ( اعذروني عن المسميات)، ولكن ألم يحن وقت رد الجميل وتعرفون ما هي الظروف التي يمر بها العراق الجريح. فقط أذكر حدودنا الغربية مع ألأردن فلمن لا يعلم أن هذه المنطقة منطقة جيولوجية خصبه والبقية أتركها لتقدير القارئ.

[salim]

مداخله مهمه من الاخ فرات

ارجوا من الاخ فرات نشر التعليق تحت الباب الخاص بالاردن ودلك توثيقا له

[salim]

http://baghdadee.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=403

 

اقصد نشره تحت الباب اعلاه

[Guest Mustefser]

The cureent crises in the increased level of violance in the last couple days had been looked at by many Iraqis as a reasult to the last Ramfeled's calls and the encourging interpretion to terrorists..

I talked to many Iraqis inside Iraq and they said that they noticed the link immediately..

Last week was the quitest one, but immediately after the calls, there was a spike of level of violance topped by current crises of city of Almedaen, where some Salafees had waived the small city of mix Sunni a nd Shia with guns and rockets to kill and hijack many Shias.. The city is ringed by many Shia strong tribal communities, but they prefered to leave it to the governemnt to deal with the situation as they think that the real purpose of the Salafees is to ignite a factionist war.

 

I think American officials need to be more carful in expressing any concerns..And Ramsfeled need to clarify his position toward what is happeneing, there was at least five young American soldiers felled in addition to tens Iraqis over the last week..!

[Guest Mustefser]

http://www.radiosawa.com/RadioSawaFeatures...e=ram&id=497917

 

استمع الى مقابله مهمه حول مسير العمليه السياسيه مع بيان جبر و راسم العوادي

 

In Arabic, intersting inteview with diffrent representivive of slates about the current political process.

Mr. jabur, the candidate to interior minister, stated that they are looking for cleaning not cleansing from all those sadames who pentrated the current scuriy and Army.

[Guest Guest]

No good can come from any american interfering in the new Iraqi government. Whether right or wrong they remain an American and the anti-government people will use it to create division. It's not the american's job anymore. The new Iraqi government is in charge of these decisions. Rumsfeld should just keep his mouth shut and do what they tell him to do.

[Guest Guest_tajer]

In a call with Iraqi friend from Alzaaforania , north to Almadaen town, he confirmed that there were large scal fighting between Iraqi troops and terrorists.

 

Today south to Almadaen, in Alsewara, citizens noticed more that crosps floating on the river of Tigres.. It is thought that these are belonging to Iraqis that their parents claimed to be taken hostages by Salfee terrorists last week.

 

The funny part is that the minister of Interrior tried to play the tragedy for political reasons by claiming that there was nothing happeneing in Almadean.. Today a huge demonstartion by parents raising photos of their relatives asking the minister about their fait!!

Listen to the denstartions in Arabic

 

http://www.radiosawa.com/RadioSawaAudio.as...e=ram&id=499124

[Guest Guest_tajer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4455657.stm

 

Of coarse , they were killed .. To day more than 100 body were found floating south to Almadaen, locals to Sawera town reported!!

[Guest Mustefser]

http://www.radiosawa.com/article_view.aspx?id=499150

 

In Arabic..

Reuters report about the finding of the bodies of hostages floating on tigeris river south to Almadaen.

Also the minister of security, Qasim Dadoud, declaring that the Iraqi army found seven explosion cars ready to be used by suiciders and huge amount of weapons..

For those who might not know where is Almadaen, it the town that circle the nueclear reActor in Zaforania "Zaza city, as the American call it"

 

Searching the governement farms that the former regime had granted to his followers in the are should be a priority for the international community. After the libration, there were organized lotting to the atomic site and no one till now is talking about what had happened to the left over radiating marterials.. There were a lot of reports of incresing cancer rate in the area among civilians, there are a lot of fears of haing these materials be loted.

 

What is not understandable, is the soft stand by the coalition forces to clean the area and search for such possibility.

The Area is a strong hold of Wahabee Salafee mixed with former regime military and republican army personalls.. Same area noticed a lot of terrorist actions such as the killing of the 55 Iraqi army recruits three months ago.

[Airedale]

al Sader claims the hostage story was a hoax, not real. If it is true that many bodies were pulled from the river, he should be asked what he thinks of seeing so many dead in the Tigress??? Are they a hoax

 

al Sader wants something to gain by making political demands in the media. He wants to see his own power base grow.

 

here is part of a story i have the link after;

 

Sadr warns Allawi on hostage crisis hoax

BAGHDAD: Radical Shi'ite cleric Moqtada Sadr yesterday warned the caretaker Iraqi government, headed by Iyad Allawi, against taking "foolish action" over a stand-off in the town of Madain.

 

"We want the area to be spared the foolish actions of some in the government," his spokesman said.

 

He also demanded clarification about the situation after Iraqi forces regained control but failed to find any hostages, putting paid to reports that Sunni gunmen had seized more than 150 Shi'ites and were threatening to kill them.

 

....

.....

Iraqi commandos combing an area on the outskirts of Baghdad where Shi'ite residents were allegedly taken hostage, found a car bomb-making factory.

 

One Iraqi official also said "execution chambers" had been uncovered in the region.

 

The spokesman, like members of parliament's dominant Shi'ite United Iraqi Alliance charged that exaggerated reports of events in Madain may be the work of former regime elements operating in the interior and defence ministries to sow instability.

.....

.....

 

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?A...L&IssueID=28030

 

This next one is an interesting story I found very much in common with the above story;

 

Iraqis accuse leaders of fabricating drama: No hostages found after raid on town

 

BAGHDAD, April 18: Iraqis on Monday accused their leaders of fabricating a hostage crisis for political ends and urged them instead to focus on tackling relentless violence and unemployment after two years of turmoil.

 

 

...

...People on a central Baghdad street frustrated by suicide bombings and economic hardship drew their own conclusions. "It is all lies. Instead of fighting terrorism the government is just making things up. What we need are jobs," said Abu Zahra, a 35-year-old labourer standing with other workers hoping to get menial jobs for about five dollars a day.

 

The murky drama has raised fears that a major conflict between Shias and Sunnis could erupt. Shia-Sunni towns like Madaen are especially volatile because they have a delicate sectarian and tribal mix. Iraqi officials say tit-for-tat kidnappings have fuelled tensions there.

.....

...

 

More at the link

 

http://www.dawn.com/2005/04/19/int1.htm

 

Everything comes down to

 

RUMORS !!!

 

Would these ..."People from a central Baghdad street "

also happen to be from a street in Sadr city?

[Airedale]

Is a Sunni purge the way to prepare the way for a Shia dominated democracy?

If the United States supports democracy,the US must allow the Iraqi style of democracy to take root.

The Shia majority seem to be saying; "The field must be cleared of overgrown weeds."

 

Is Hussain Shahristani going to have a large power role in the next elected government ?

 

Iraqi Alliance Seeks to Oust Top Officials of Hussein Era

 

BAGHDAD, April 17 -- The Shiite Muslim bloc leading the new Iraqi government will demand the removal of all top officials left over from the era of former president Saddam Hussein, a top official said. The move would be part of a purge that U.S. officials fear could oust thousands of the most capable Iraqis from military and intelligence forces the United States has spent more than $5 billion rebuilding.

 

 

The Shiite-dominated United Iraqi Alliance also will insist on trials for every former official, soldier or worker suspected of wrongdoing during that time, Hussain Shahristani, who helped form the Shiite alliance, said in an interview that outlined plans for handling members of Hussein's Baath Party in the armed forces and intelligence services.

 

 

Shahristani said the alliance would also seek prosecution of what he said were the few thousand leaders of the Sunni Muslim-led insurgency.

 

For the alliance and the long-persecuted Shiite community it represents, Shahristani said, "justice prevails" over everything else.

 

 

Concerns about the purge have drawn a sharp U.S. response. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, flying unannounced to Iraq last week, warned the Shiite-led government not to "come in and clean house" in the security forces.

 

The Shiite alliance's plan also runs counter to efforts by other Iraqi politicians who say they hope to defuse the insurgency by drawing the disgruntled Sunni minority, routed from power with Hussein, back into the political process. The new president, Jalal Talabani, whose Kurdish bloc is in the governing coalition with the Shiite alliance, has called for an amnesty and government negotiations with some insurgents.

 

 

But Shahristani said the Shiite-led alliance believes weapons, not appeasement, will end the insurgency.

"I don't think the insurgency can be beaten by negotiations," said Shahristani, who is close to Iraq's most politically influential religious leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani. "For us in the alliance, we don't think it's serious. We think it's surrender, and the Iraqi people will not accept surrender."

 

How the purge is handled stands as one of the most potentially divisive and dangerous tasks facing the Shiite-Kurdish coalition brought to power by the Jan. 30 national elections. Adnan Ali Kadhimi, an aide to the incoming prime minister, Ibrahim Jafari, said Sunday that he was working to announce Jafari's new cabinet by early next week. Jafari is the country's first Shiite premier in a half-century.

 

 

Under Hussein, registration in the Baath Party was a requirement for jobs on almost all levels, from army general to teacher. Hussein's armed forces and his nearly two dozen intelligence agencies were responsible for mass killings, imprisonment, uprooting and torture. Members of the Shiite and Kurdish opposition made up hundreds of thousands of the victims.

 

 

Politicians say that people responsible for some of those abuses and Baathist die-hards have made their way into the new security forces and should be removed.

 

 

But too broad and deep a purge threatens to worsen one of the biggest legacies of Hussein's overthrow and the U.S. occupation: the growing sectarian and ethnic cast to the country's politics.

 

 

The perception of Shiite-dominated security forces and intelligence would heighten the sense of siege among some Sunni communities. Kurds and other Shiite groups also might be less willing to disband their militias, seeing them as a last defense to Shiite Islamic ambitions.

 

 

Wamidh Nadhmi, the leader of the Arab Nationalist Trend and a spokesman for a coalition of Sunni and Shiite groups that had boycotted the elections, said an aggressive purge of Iraq's security forces would end up riddling them with partisan loyalties, a frequent theme in Iraq's history, as parties vied for power.

 

 

"These people are threatening us with a warlord system that will destroy the country," Nadhmi said.

 

 

U.S. and many Iraqi leaders say throwing Baath-era officials and officers out of work could encourage them to join the insurgency.

 

 

A top U.S. concern is that the purge will go too far in military terms alone, decimating the new forces as they battle the insurgency across the country, a U.S. official in Baghdad said.

 

 

 

 

 

If the Shiite-led bloc "is going to do a very hard purge of everybody who ever carried a Baathist registration card, you're going to get rid of people who really have the experience and have proved themselves," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

 

"We're really convinced that they're the key," he said of the Baath-era veterans, citing the performance of mid-level former Baath officers in important battles -- and the American lives and dollars invested in rebuilding Iraq's military.

 

And in a climate where sectarian and ethnic divisions are sharp, mistakes could gain a momentum of their own, a senior U.S. military official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity.

 

"Parties that come to the table don't come to the table with a great deal of trust for each other," he said. "And so any perceived missteps, any perceived overuse of power or underuse of power, depending on where you sit, I think, is going to be magnified. And so there is a danger just going down this entire process."

 

He said he saw a risk and a benefit in a purge.

 

"If you're talking about a purge, you have the very simple fact that you have a force that is gutted so you have a less capable force," he said. "If you don't have a purge, you've got some group that will sit on the side that looks at the members of the security forces and say some number of those should have been purged and that feeds the level of mistrust."

 

Shahristani pointed to the intelligence services as one of the main battlegrounds, as the Shiite alliance vies with Baath-era holdovers for control of the agencies and files.

 

Postwar intelligence services are staffed by many Baath officials and agents called back to duty by the CIA, in its search for solid intelligence against insurgents, U.S. and Iraqi officials have said.

 

"We know that most senior officials in the department are from the previous intelligence department who've been oppressing the Iraqi people," Shahristani said.

 

Lawmakers of the governing coalition say the Shiite alliance has agreed not to disband the key intelligence services. The question will be who directs and staffs them, they say. Any bloc that holds unchallenged control of national security agencies and their files would have the means, and information, to identify its political enemies.

 

If Sunni intelligence officials are purged, Shiite hard-liners would be ready to move in intelligence units of Shiite militias including the Badr Brigade, a group formed by Iraqi Shiite leaders when they were in exile in Iran while Hussein was in power.

 

"You have to assume -- Allawi assumes -- that the Badr Brigade would want to infiltrate security," a top Kurdish official in the coalition with the alliance said, referring to Ayad Allawi, prime minister in the interim government and one of the main officials now working to counter Shiite sectarianism in the new government.

 

Shahristani said the alliance's take on the purge was only slightly tougher than Allawi's. For the alliance, he said, "de-Baathification does not mean de-Sunnification, nor does it mean every single member of the Baath Party is guilty until proven innocent."

 

With only 17 Sunni lawmakers in the new 275-member assembly as a result of the Sunni boycott of elections, Sunnis largely have to look to others to represent their interests in the upcoming purge.

 

Nadhmi said he suspected that the United States would serve as a check.

 

"I cannot see that the Americans would allow the total dissolution of a system which they helped and which they initiated," he said. "They will be forced into a lot of compromises."

 

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/w...61487_2005apr17

[Guest Guest_tajer]

General Nuaman Alsamuraee, the former regime head of militry academy was running a training camp in Almadean, he escaped .

Also a huge catch of weapons was found that is sufficient of supplying arms to fight to occupy Baghdad.

 

It might be understood for the Sunni scholar association to show disagreament with the operations by Iraqi army, as they lost a strong hold just 30 mile far from Baghdad.

Seems Alsadrees were agree that the Shia of Almadaen had ignored them in asking for help and prefered to aski it from the more trustful Coalition parties and Mr. Hakeem

[Furat]

في الوقت الذي كان فيه شعبنا في مدينة المدائن يستغيث ويطلب العون مِن مَن يسمى أنهم حكومة، طالبة المساعدة من في إنقاذها من الإرهابيين الذين عاثوا في المدينة فساداً والهاربين من واقعة وأحداث البوعيثه، لم يكن هناك من مجيب أو منادي. كان هذا قبل حوالي أكثر من شهر حينما ذهبت إلى الصويرة لأداء مراسيم العزاء حينما شاهدت ومن معي الجثث الملقاة على قارعة الطريق، بل إن النار والدخان كان لا يزال يرتفع مما يدل على أن المجابهة تمت قبل وصولنا بقليل، والضحايا هم من المدنيين ومن لوحة سيارتهم هم تابعين إلى وزارة المالية. أقول في هذا الوقت طالعتنا قناة العربية ومراسلها في العراق أن لايوجد شئ وأن المدينة يلفها الهدوء، في حين أننا نسمع أزيز الطائرات الحربيه والسمتيه والشينوك ولمدة ثلاثة أيام ليلاً ونهاراً. هذه هي القنوات التي تنقل الحقيقة. لا تعلق آخر لأن الباقي محرج ومؤلم.