American mistakes/2

[salim]

Tex,

As for your reply that I read once before this site went in sielnce, I want to confirm that the question about Quatanamo and other allegations wasn't to echo those of same people who raise their voice in support for terrorist while it keeping low on others.

What i was refering to is that democratic systems might find a SOME level of going byond basic human right of suspects is possible inoder to safe lifes of thousands civilians. When that US military unit sieged the high criminal jail, it broke two basic rules. First , this is an official center of the Iraqi government that could easily be investigated through normal procedures. Following action based on exagdurated allegations is very dangrous behavior and might open a wider widow for terrorist to sneak into a gray area of propaganda support as was the case with this one.

The second issue is the level of harm that it caused to the process of Police and other forces building. The propaganda style of the raid was something unexplainable.. On same night of the raid, that is two nights before the announcement by US comanders that they found some evidences of some tourturing activity, Aljezera was the first to point out to the raid, as I said two day before the announcement. The way Aljezera was pointing in it's propaganda that night draw my attention, because it is normal to see American troop raiding different places, so why this one was important for Aljezera. Then 48 hrs later, we found that Aljezera might had more inside info than any one else , may be more that Aljefree goverment about intentions of US acts!!

 

US troops control is planned to be decreasing significantly by next year, without have fully confident Iraqi forces, such reduction might turn Iraq into a civil war. The move was to hurt much such confidence.

Within Iraq , there is a growing theory among Iraqis, that US liberation was also to creat a vaccume of power in Iraq so that Qaeda extreemists can easily pour in .A way to kill them easily at expence of Iraqi civilians life though. We might not agree with it but indeed that is what is happening. US intellegence who was able to protect the huge US soil over the last three years is not able to protect Iraqi boarders.. A lot of Iraqis saw US troops releasing terrorists and Baathist criminals after the war , after people captured them and delivared them to the us militery. There was many explanation for that but for those who are paying the very high price of the blood of their love ones, there is only one.. It is a mistake!

 

Today, Iraqi when watching the same liberators are so keen in liberating the top criminal figures of Qaeda and Baathist on the excuse of torture, there is no explaination but to say that the Americans are kind of upset seeing Iraqi forces, specially the interior minstery one, get so much success in controling and protecting Iraqis in what used to be six months ago as very dangrous zones of east of Baghdad and Almadaean. While the Iraqi military which is still under the direct command of US control are very lacking in areas of Jamea, Doura, Ghazalia and Abu Ghraib.. They might be wrong but this a reality, any one in Baghdad can easily notice.

 

I think Americans are in dilema.. They don't want Baathists to take control in the new Iraqi force build up, as this might open channels for terorists. At same time They don't want Iraqis "mostely Shia" to take control either, afraiding of Iranian aleged influence..

The only result is more casualities and more young US and Iraq blood .

 

 

Until the American reach to decision which way they should go, we will see more red colored streets of Iraq of our beloved US and Iraqis.. There is no third magic way though!

Those former regim officers , who you were praising are same who ran the Jadiraia prison by the way..

 

Thank you much for great praise to my humbel writings, I assure you that I missed your great points during your last abscence.. I find them very useful in hellping me understand the situation , at the end we both have a very imporatnt mutaul interest: the safe of the lifes of our beloved ones fighting same enymy in Iraq, Terrorist. And sharing same wish of building new Iraq that is good for humanity and it's people.. Thank you Sir!

[salim]

The above was in reply to Tex's comments on my lost reply . That is before the problem with the site..

 

 

You say; beginning here

"What had happened yesterday by some US units in Baghdad is very serious mistake and I personally have no expalantion to it .." ...

 

Salim

How about THIS for your conspiracy beleivers:

 

American Forces had intellegence (intelligence in reports of prisoner abuse) in that IRAQI's were torturing their IRAQI PRISONERS at this prison under TOTAL IRAQI CONTROL.

 

US forces went in to investigate..FOUND IT TO BE TRUE AND PUT A STOP TO IT ON THE SPOT !

 

THE US PUT A STOP TO IT BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHY THE US LIBERATED IRAQ. THE US DOES NOT WANT IRAQI's TO TORTURE PRISONERS UNDER THEIR CONTROL. THAT IS WHAT SADAMN DID. THE US HAS NOTHING TO GAIN BY ALLOWING IRAQIS TO TORTURE OTHER IRAQIS OR OTHER PRISONERS, YOU IRAQI's have everything to lose WHEN THEY DO.

 

QUOTE

How about THIS for your conspiracy beleivers:

In deed that would be a very good point to reply to Iraqis. Unfortunately this is not convincing.. The detain center is under full control of US command of Baghdad and American MP were visiting it every week and the Humen right minister "Sunni" have full access to it. More than that most of it's officers were a sunni former regime " proficienals" that were screened and appointed by the US admin through the former "appointed" interior minister..

 

I would not go through details of this idea that the 3rd battalian raided the ceter just to investigate such allegations which might be true or false. As this would trigger so many replies by our conspircy loving people.Such as , who autherize the officers of that battelian to humilate Iraqi police? if they are so keen why they don't raid Buka and Aboghraib detain centers where same allegations are raised on daily bases by same people who are raising their vioice against Iraqi police .

 

A friend of mine was asking me , why FBI don't go aver Guatanamu base detain center where there is at least a law suit by one of the detainees .. I replied , Guatanamo base is not part of the US land. it is in Cuba.. He replied , is the main IRAQI detain center is part of US soil.. ?

 

Thank you for your well thought out replies to this topic. I always appreciate your efforts to find real and honest truths about what happens in Iraq on its march to democracy. (the good and the bad)

 

While I agree that ORIGINALLY the US appointed many Iraqi Officials (including "Ex Sadamn Officials” in some sensitive internal security positions) and in many areas of Iraq's transitional Government. Who else could they appoint..... the Chinese? The Russian, German or French? (rhetorically speaking ) No, It was important to get CAPABLE IRAQI's involved in managing IRAQS OWN affairs as soon as possible getting a transitional process started giving IRAQ back to Iraqi’s .( of course some mistakes were made in such a challenge )

 

I can not and will not agree the US is responsible for the abuse of Prisoners ( by IRAQI’s in these detention centers. ) or based on your analysis that the US is still in direct charge. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by the US TO ALLOW THIS. That defies all logic.

 

To say that these prisoners were under the direct control of the US Baghdad Military authority is ludicrous. They are under the DIRECT CONTROL of Iraq’s present Government and THAT is who should be held accountable. The US assisted the present IRAQ government because evidence (intel) had identified this to be a problem. The US would NOT do this with out IRAQ’S present Government APPROVAL.

 

Here you have a clear case of “BLAME THE US” for any failure of IRAQS current Government. A Government that (it seems to me) is trying to STOP incidents like this with US support and help.

 

Iraq has gone through two transitions towards democracy on your march to Full Sovereignty. First the Transitional “US appointed Government for Iraq” under transitional law. These “appointed” Officials further appointed various representatives from around Iraq to the various ministries along with representatives of the different Sects and provinces until elections could be held for All Iraqis to choose their own transitional leaders. Your first democratic election. That election (the second transition) was carried out for the US turn over to Iraq its full sovereignty as a NEW NATION. These two transitional Governments have progressed towards the NEXT election come December .... where ALL of Iraqis leaders will be truly elected by ALL the people of IRAQ. THAT is a major accomplishment in so short a time.

 

I think the conspiracy theorist you describe suffer from overload of the “MEDIA PROPOGANDA CAMPAIGNS” emanating from left wing US and European antiwar news organizations and the insufferable Arabic nations with despicable GOVERRMENT CONTROLLED media.

 

You bring up Quantonomo .. which is a sick propaganda campaign. First of all there is NO WAY the Koran given to those prisoners could physically be flushed down the toilets provided them. Second, those prisoners one and all were captured on the battlefield trying to kill American Troops. Thirdly, those prisoners are kept in detention centers that are like 5 star hotels compared to the BEST prison in ANY Arabic country. Fourthly, every prisoner there has gained weight from the food prepared and accommodating their religious doctrine and custom. That is far more than any ONE of those cockroaches deserve. Fifthly, there is one prisoner that an extreme element of America's radical left wing is trying to bring to American CIVIL Judicial Court. These are prisoners of WAR, so these extremist anti-war lawyers representing him will NOT be successful and they know it. They are doing it only for the PROPAGANDA value it will generate. This is the extreme ANTI US AND ANTI WAR in IRAQ crowd.

 

You are an individual I have come to respect tremendously, and many times depend on for the fair and balanced personal views you have on Iraq.

 

Your views on what is written by the press and other media or from personal accounts from Iraqi’s have helped me understand Iraq a lot better. Although I may strongly disagree with some of your critical analysis as to who is at fault for this prisoner abuse incident I strongly respect your opinion.

 

 

thank you again for your replies

[Guest Mustefser]

On Monday, Iraq's interior minister, Bayan Jabr, said American-led forces should be able to leave Iraq by the end of next year, adding that the one-year extension of the mandate for the multinational force in Iraq by the United Nations Security Council earlier this month could be the last, The Associated Press reported.

 

"By mid-next year, we will be 75 percent done in building our forces, and by the end of next year it will be fully ready," Mr. Jabr told Al Jazeera, the pan-Arab news channel.

The Monday statement offered Shiite politicians concessions, too, by condemning terrorism against Shiites, condemning trumped-up theological arguments for attacks on Shiites, and legitimizing the political process that has made Shiite leaders the dominant political force in Iraq.

 

"Some of the sides that were especially sensitive have opened up with the support of the Arab League," said Sheik Humam Hamoudi, a Shiite who headed the Iraqi constitution-drafting committee. "We now clearly see that Sunnis have entered politics, and this meeting won't change that."

 

"If this meeting did anything, it was to comfort the Arabs and the Iraqi Sunnis about the whole process," he added. "The solution first is that Sunnis enter politics, then they enter government, then we deliver services to their areas, and then we build a strong government."

 

 

 

 

From NT article of today about the Cairo meeting

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/internat....html?th&emc=th

[salim]

Indeed the Cairo meeting was just three days after the raid of the detantion center in Baghdad. Some Iraqis thought that the raid was to demoulish the meeting by igniting a secterian spark about it.. Which to certain extent was the the case.

Reading through the aricle above by Mr. fatah , A sunni Arab american-Iraqi jornalist, I would say that this agreement was very important to bring to the table a well written document that would please both sides.. The governemnt and the opposition. NOT Sunni against Shia, as the writer might inderctly implied.

The Shia cleric that the article posted his photo, is not a pro government, he is one of top opponent to it.

 

As for the withrdaw call, I would say the writer might reflect the way some pan-arb media look to. The cluase was completely pro goverment as it repeat exacly same call that Opposition was rejecting.."Demand for withdraw that is based on Iraqi forces buildup and according to the UN resolutions" So what is new? The opposition was refusing this before to ask for a restrict time table ..

 

The meeting agree on some thing very important, that is the refrence to the right of resistance, however it fail short to call those insurgents in Iraq as part of such resistance..

[Guest Mustefser]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10166449/

 

Have a look..

[salim]

Yesterday , Alchalabi accompanied by the interior minster were attending a great show by Iraqi police units. Mr. Chalabi said that Iraqi have full confidence in their new police and that the goverment is standing firm behind it. Mr. Zubaidi, the minister, announcesd that there is now a stricking unit of more than ten thousan well trained and qualified persons with more than one thousand veichles that will start masive attack in one month on bases of terrorists. He said it might come either before or after the elelction, he asked his men to be ready aand be full confident of them self.

The minister had a long meeting with US congressmen twodays ago.

[Guest Guest_salim]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10298037/

 

If there is such thing happening then it is a scandel because there no such stories in the iraqi media .. Indeed what Iraqis clainming that there is a lot of prepaid anti american stories in the Arab and some Iraqi media that don't reflect the real situation inside Iraq.

I think such AP and LA times stories is to creat a propaganda against any Iraqi who want to break the media wall that is imposed on Iraqi people. Any one one who refuse to enrole in Aljezera anti Iraq liberation propaganda should be considered as on the US pay role!

 

So cheap!

[Guest Guest_salim]

Have a look to this funy article.The writer is not worry about thounsands of lifes of Iraqis as he is worry of allegations that the Iraqi policy in a absolute Shia arab population are Shia that might be loyal to some parties.. In order to prove his point , he refere to a singlr incident of a kidnapping of a buisness man !

 

Same allegation same point , when ever Iraqi succed in protecting them self, there some one echoing the Arab radical media propaganda that this is happening through melitia of Shia parties. Let us assume that this there is some police or Army personal who are loyal to these anti Saddam parties, can some one tell me why such writer is more worried of these figures and not showing more concerns of those Sadamist that are planted in the police force by Alawaee and Bremer? What about Kurd melitia who are officially claim full control of Kurdistan and not accepting any government involvment?

To my understanding , these writers are not concern of the militia involvment in the police, which might happening to some level, but that are really worried of the success that such model is making in securing more than 80% of Ira, take Basrah as example!!

 

U.S. Goals for Iraqi Forces Meet Success and Challenges in Najaf

By EDWARD WONG

Published: December 3, 2005

NAJAF, Iraq, Dec. 1 - On the palm-lined avenues leading into this Shiite holy city and among the twisting alleyways at its center, next to the golden-domed Shrine of Ali, police officers with Kalashnikovs patrol where American troops once fought two fierce rebellions led by Moktada al-Sadr, the militant cleric.

 

Najaf and the surrounding region lie at the forefront of the Bush administration's plans to turn over security operations to Iraqi forces, earning a mention in the president's speech at the United States Naval Academy on Wednesday. By many measures, the thousands of Iraqi police officers and soldiers here have done well. They have prevented the devastating suicide bombings that have plagued Baghdad and other areas of Iraq. Attacks against Americans are rare, and American troops are steadily lowering their profile.

 

Scott Nelson/World Picture News, for The New York Times

Lt. Col. James Oliver, the commander in Najaf, says U.S. troops are needed at least through 2006.

 

 

Training: General Says Militias Split Loyalties of Iraqi Security Forces (December 3, 2005)

Blast in Falluja Kills 10 Marines; 11 Are Wounded (December 3, 2005)

 

Forum: The Transition in Iraq

 

Enlarge This Image

 

Scott Nelson/World Picture News, for The New York Times

Police officers in Najaf have reduced the number of suicide bombings, but many are loyal to private militias, which occasionally battle one another.

But even here, in the southern Shiite heartland that is largely free of sectarian tensions, the American enterprise still faces steep hurdles, ones that are more subtle but no less subversive than the Sunni-led insurgency.

 

Many of those blue-uniformed police officers are members of Shiite militias, including Mr. Sadr's Mahdi Army, which battled American troops here last year. Political rivalries occasionally erupt into violence, as when the Mahdi Army clashed with another militia in August. Corruption and kidnappings remain a problem, officials say, as does politically motivated crime.

 

On Thursday evening, Hussein al-Zurfi, whose brother, Adnan al-Zurfi, a former Detroit businessman and ex-governor of Najaf who is running in the Dec. 15 parliamentary elections, was kidnapped in the neighboring town of Kufa.

 

Hours before President Bush gave his Wednesday speech, the Najaf provincial council threatened to break off all ties with the Americans over accusations that soldiers had stabbed a young man to death during a house raid last Sunday. The Americans say the Iraqi Army was responsible for the killing, and that the man was reportedly armed.

 

"I don't think I'd go so far as to recommend that we totally pull out," said Lt. Col. James Oliver, the commander of the First Battalion, 198th Armor of the 155th Brigade, a National Guard unit from Mississippi that is the main American force here. Nothing less than an American battalion, up to 1,000 troops, should remain in the area through 2006 and perhaps longer, he said.

 

Yet, for the most part, American officers here praise the work of the Iraqi security forces, saying they have trained well and kept the number of major attacks on American and Iraqi troops to an average of one per month.

 

The American commanders say their soldiers have largely halted combat missions and now play a training and backup role for the Iraqi forces - a model, perhaps, for the 160,000 American troops in other parts of the country.

 

In early September, the 500 soldiers of Colonel Oliver's battalion moved from a forward base on the outskirts of this city to a larger headquarters in the desert about a 40-minute drive away. A 900-person battalion of the Iraqi Army moved into the old American compound.

 

It was one of the 28 American forward bases in Iraq that had been shut down by mid-November, with 15 of those having been transferred to Iraqi forces, said Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch, a spokesman for the American command. He said the military expects to close four more of the remaining 82 forward bases within three months.

 

Colonel Oliver's unit, backed by 700 soldiers from a logistics battalion, acts as a guarantor of last resort for the Iraqi forces, remaining on call in case of overwhelming trouble. Emergency requests from the Iraqis come in about once a month, officers say. American advisers also work with Iraqi officers at a security command center inside Najaf, and, since last spring, one company each has been assigned to train and advise the Iraqi police and army.

 

"They were receptive; they actually wanted to take control of their own area," said Sgt. First Class Paul Bedford, part of a reconnaissance platoon that patrols the roads outside Najaf. "Assessment would be more the word than training at this point."

 

Many people in this city of a half million, home to some of the world's most revered ayatollahs, support the handover of security duties to the Iraqis.

 

"They're spread well throughout the city," said Qasim Said, 43, a schoolteacher in a grocery store with his 7-year-old son. "I don't think any decent Iraqi is happy to see foreign forces, whatever their nationality, in his street. Thank God that the presence of the Americans has gone down in Najaf. The city is rejoicing."

 

12Next

[salim]

AN Iraqi PM member today called for he government to issue a warrent against the two lawyers, American Clark and Qateree Alnuamee. He claimed that they violated the visa requirement to entre Iraq.

If his claim is right , then this might be a very serious scandle.. The first question that may be flagged by Iraqis is how they got in through the airport. The answer is is very simple, the only possible way is through the private gate of the coalition forces in Baghdad airport.. The question is why these forces are willing to violate the Iraqi laws? this gate is set for the military specific related personal. Why these forces are willing in interfere in the court by imposing such lawyers whose only attentance was to humilate Iraq people and the legitimate institutions?The never particibated in going through the case detailes over the last two days.

 

Today this issue is flagging a lot of conspiracy theories and need to be clarified by US authorities as soon as possible. I am seeing a pattren of implenting untrust feelings among Iraqis toward the real intentions of US.. Started by the unexplainable scandle of raiding the Jaderiah jail and now this.. Iraqis had all the gratitude feelings toward all what the US soldgers sacrifieces and we should all point to any bad intention to mess with !

[salim]

Today I want to talk about the great doing by the Americans.. What had happened in Iraq over the last ten days broved one thing.. That all what President Bush and other American leaders talked about was correct.. That freedom is a common human language , that we all alike..

The visit by Mr. ramsfeled and his great speachs in supporting the political process was a great blew to all those who tried to stop it.. The results were immediat. The Sunni Arab Tawfiq front, that came second to the coalition Shia in the perliment announced that it is not part of Alwawee's league of MIRAM to bycot the process and they keep their rights in following on their allegations against the ellections but they are keeping all the chaneels with the coalition and other parties to form a unified strong giovernment. Mr. Alanni of Al tawfug today announced on AlIraqia that they are working with Kurds and Shia to come up with such governemnt. He admitted that the results were not a surprise to any one but they need their claims to be investigated.

[Guest Guest]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060105/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

 

But in a chord struck by several politicians Thursday, the party also condemned policies it said were imposed by the U.S.-led coalition that were hampering Iraqi security forces' counterterrorism work. The Americans have increased their oversight of Shiite-dominated security forces following widespread charges of abuse, especially of Sunni Arab detainees.

 

"Not allowing these two ministries to do their job means exposing helpless Iraqis to ruthless terrorists," SCIRI said. "They should know that the patience of our people will not last for a long time with these sectarian dirty crimes."

 

The warning to Sunnis carried the possibility of using militias like the Badr Brigade, the former military wing of SCIRI, to exact vengeance against Sunni supporters of insurgents.

 

Hadi al-A'meri, the secretary general of the Badr Brigade, also blamed the attacks on the U.S.-led coalition. "Why are they putting obstacles in the way of the work of the Interior Ministry?" he asked.

 

The U.S. Embassy in Baghdad said it was appalled by the attacks. "This terror aims simply to kill innocent Iraqis and provoke further conflict between them," the embassy said.

 

The two ministers are ther Sunni Arab Defence minister and The Shia arab interior minister!

[Airedale]

US officials in talks with Iraqi insurgents

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. officials have been talking with local Iraqi insurgent leaders to exploit a rift between homegrown insurgents and radical groups such as Al Qaeda, The New York Times reported on Saturday

...

...

According to interviews with insurgents and both U.S. and Iraqi officials, clashes between Iraqi groups and al Qaeda have broken out in several cities across the Sunni Triangle and they appear to have intensified in recent months, the Times said.

 

A Western diplomat who supports the talks told the Times that the Americans had opened face-to-face discussions with insurgents in the field, and were also communicating with senior insurgent leaders through intermediaries.

...

....

The diplomat said the goal was to take advantage of rifts in the insurgency, in particular those between local groups, whose main goal is to expel U.S. forces, and more radical groups like al Qaeda, which have alienated many Iraqis with violent campaigns that have resulted in mass killings of Iraqi civilians.

...

...

Tarik al-Hashimy, the leader of the Iraqi Islamic Party, who said he was in periodic contact with insurgent leaders and had asked them to hold their fire during the elections, told the Times he did not think the talks had made much progress...

...

...

The diplomat did not specify which groups the Americans were speaking to, but the Times said it seemed likely that they included groups like the Islamic Army in Iraq and Muhammad's Army, which are believed to comprise mainly Iraqi nationalists and former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party.

 

Insurgents told the newspaper that there is widespread hatred for al Qaeda among ordinary Iraqis. Abu Amin, an insurgent leader in Yusefiya and a former captain in the Iraqi Army, told the Times the Americans were especially interested in securing help against al Qaeda, about whom they asked many questions: "Do you have a relationship with? Can you help us attack al Qaeda? Can you uproot al Qaeda from Iraq?"

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060107/pl_nm/...a_insurgency_dc

 

My questiom is this;

Will the new government's first order of buisness be a sweeping change in the amnesty program ?

 

Will the Sunni minority in government demand and receive a chance to offer a larger amnesty program to the ex Baathist party and Republican guard leaders in return for Saddam and post Saddam era crimes comitted against the majority ?

[Guest red line]

http://www.radiosawa.com/article.aspx?id=749211

 

In Arabic , an interview with some Iraqi politicians about the policy of releasing some Sadam's aids ..

The Iraqi PM spokesman expressed his concerned of such move and called it a clear violation to Iraqi governemnt sovergnty..He accused the Americans of striking a deal without any regard to the Iraqi side

[Guest interior minister]

Two main developments

 

Iraqi interrior minster was on the TV yesterday.. He said that they know the kidnappers of his sister .. And they are reaching them and their political figures supporters. He also mentioned that this might go to be a tribal issue, as he is blonging to the very influencial Zubaid trib that have branches in both Suni and Shia Arab .. He also dnied the previous allegations by france news that reported that The US abbasidor was denouncing him as factionists in dealing with insurgents. He confiremed that the speach was twisted by the France news reportor , a Tunissi arab in Baghdad. He said that there is a law suite against the reporter and he might be punished by an Iraqi court for misleading the public and also any suitable fine.

 

Today the kidnappers released the sister and run away!

 

Also he assure that there will be an agressive plan to enhance the police in Iraq during this year and US police will help a lot in that task by training and help.

 

When asked about his comment on that incident where an Iraqi police officer blew his self in the ministery complex killing other officers. He said that this part of we are doing and he was so upset to say that this might drive us to Fedral system to protect ourself, as the Kurds are doing..

 

He also added that there were serious of meeting with US and british authorities in Baghdad to discuss the obsticles that they put in front of Iraqi army and police to follow Sadamists and terororists.. There was a full agreement that should happen again and immediately the Iraqi foprces statered their operations..

More than 22 terrorists were killed and captured during the last two days including many arabs from Syria , egypt and Algeria..

[Texas Gentleman]

Army Officer Found Guilty in Iraqi's Death

 

An Army officer was found guilty of negligent homicide late Saturday in the death of an Iraqi general at a detention camp, but was spared a conviction of murder that could have sent him to prison for life.

 

A panel of six Army officers also convicted Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer Jr., 43, of negligent dereliction of duty. He was acquitted of assault after six hours of deliberations.

 

Welshofer was accused of putting a sleeping bag over the head of Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush, sitting on his chest and using his hand to cover the general's mouth while asking him questions in 2003.

 

Welshofer, who stood silently and showed no reaction when the verdict was announced, faces a dishonorable discharge and up to three years in prison for negligent homicide and three months for negligent dereliction of duty. Sentencing was scheduled for Monday.

 

If convicted of the original murder charge, he could have been sentenced to life in prison.

 

The defense had argued a heart condition caused Mowhoush's death, and that Welshofer's commanders had approved the interrogation technique.

 

"What he was doing he was doing in the open, and he was doing it because he believed the information in fact would save lives," attorney Frank Spinner said.

 

Spinner said he was disappointed with the verdict and would decide after sentencing whether to appeal.

 

"The verdict recognizes the context in which these events took place," he said. "It was a very difficult time in Iraq. There was confusion, and they were not getting clear guidance from headquarters."

 

Welshofer and prosecutors left without commenting.

 

During the trial, prosecutor Maj. Tiernan Dolan described a rogue interrogator who became frustrated with Mowhoush's refusal to answer questions and escalated his techniques from simple interviews to beatings to simulating drowning, and finally, to death.

 

"He treated that general worse than you would treat a dog and he did so knowing he was required to treat the general humanely," Dolan said.

 

Welshofer used his sleeping bag technique in the presence of lower ranking soldiers, but never in the presence of officers with the authority to stop him, Dolan said.

 

The treatment of the Iraqi general "could fairly be described as torture," Dolan said.

 

In an e-mail to a commander, Dolan said, Welshofer wrote that restrictions on interrogation techniques were impeding the Army's ability to gather intelligence. Welshofer wrote that authorized techniques came from Cold War-era doctrine that did not apply in Iraq, Dolan said.

 

"Our enemy understands force, not psychological mind games," Dolan quoted from Welshofer's message. Dolan said an officer responded by telling Welshofer to "take a deep breath and remember who we are."

 

The defense urged jurors to consider conditions in Iraq at the time of the interrogation: Soldiers were being killed in an increasingly lethal and increasingly bold insurgency. Welshofer had to make some decisions on his own because guidance was lacking and other techniques weren't working, Spinner said.

 

Officials believed Mowhoush had information that would "break the back of the whole insurgency," said defense attorney Capt. Ryan Rosauer. They also thought Mowhoush helping to bring foreign fighters into Iraq from across the Syrian border, he said.

 

Several prosecution witnesses, including one whose identity is classified and who testified in a closed session, had been granted immunity in exchange for their cooperation, Spinner noted. Two soldiers who were initially charged with murder in the case also were given immunity.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

in my opinion this is a shame !

 

.... not because this American officer accidently killed this Iraqi General, but that he now faces :

 

A: His life ruined with a "dishonorable discharge" from our Military Services

( a very serious handicap for the rest of his life getting a decent job )

 

B: That he will serve up to three years in prison for "mistreating = "torturing" an Ex-Iraqi Baathist General under Saddam turned insurgent who was instrumental in continuing to kill American soilders. Soldiers that this "convicted" Officer had a duty to protect.

 

These Animals who strive to retain Saddams old defeated baathist regime and its methods of torture, murder, mayhem and terriorism deserve no special treatment under the auspices of any "Geneva Conventions" for warfare. They should not be privy to something they do not honor.

 

I applaud this (now convicted) Officer for knowing what he faced ( from the American Military) for using his methods trying to save American Soldiers's and did it anyway. I do NOT believe he intended to kill this scumbag, but I will say its good one more xcumbag is not among the living.

 

Tex