American mistakes/2

[salim]

The fast and determined response by The American Embassy and military authorities was very appropriate and in time. I think a non biased investigation team leaded by President Talabani is the best to deal with this unfortunate incident. The reaction by most political and religious leaders asking people for calm and wait for the outcome of the invistigation team was also helping a lot.

 

 

This incident might high light the sensativity of current situation and how much care need to be taken into consideration. there are many groups that are willing to break the relation of trust between Iraqis and americans and we all need to work very hard to expose them and make sure that they would not succeed in their goals..

[salim]

What i also noticed that the mosque incident was not the only one that was put in a context of breaking the trust relation that I mentioned above. There were other accompanied disturbing news .. First the raid on an interior minstery jail that was descriped by same libral media as "secret" and that the Americans had freed 17 arab terrorists and jailed 40 policemen. A news that turned to be completely false. All what had happened as explained by the interior minister. There was a false leak by some informative to the Americans that the jail is a secret one. A combined American and Iraqi "defence and interior" found 16 sudanees and one Egeptian who had violated immigration laws and are jailed in order to expidate them to their countries. No free no jail but a big thank to the Jail administaration.

 

The other was the attack on Aldaawa party center in south Baghdad, which was thought done by an american airplane happened to be in the air at that time.

 

Also the false news of jailing the head of police in Diala provice by Americans.. which turned to be not correct..

 

 

 

These are just examples of what role the media is playing and if you trace it you might find it sourced by the libral westren media and it's fake sources. On the other hand I noticed the Arab nationalist media who was anti American, turn all of a sudedn to talk about the hope that Americans are turning their backs to their Shia friends, as if Alsader was American friend. others went further to justify the attack and try their best to convince the Americans that the Shia had attacked the Americans .. All this in a hope that they can mislead both sides to get them in a military conflict..

[Texas Gentleman]

What i also noticed that the mosque incident was not the only one that was put in a context of breaking the trust relation that I mentioned above. There were other accompanied disturbing news .. First the raid on an interior minstery jail that was descriped by same libral media as "secret" and that the Americans had freed 17 arab terrorists and jailed 40 policemen. A news that turned to be completely false. All what had happened as explained by the interior minister. There was a false leak by some informative to the These are just examples of what role the media is playing and if you trace it you might find it sourced by the libral westren media and it's fake sources . On the other hand I noticed the Arab nationalist media who was anti American, turn all of a sudedn to talk about the hope that Americans are turning their backs to their Shia friends, as if Alsader was American friend. others went further to justify the attack and try their best to convince the Americans that the Shia had attacked the Americans .. All this in a hope that they can mislead both sides to get them in a military conflict..

 

Salim, why were you so quick to blame the AMERICANS ?? .. the hearts and minds you'd better start winning back is the US PUBICS.. many here are getting fed up with the 8th century barbaric mentality of seemingly everyday IRAQI's and their childish but lethal internal power struggles. So you think you are disappointed ???

 

 

US, Mahdi forces clash

 

Healing Iraq has news that a US force has clashed with Moqtada al Sadr's troops:

 

American forces clashed with Mahdi army militiamen at the Ur district (Hayy Ur), west of Sadr city in Baghdad. It seems an American force attempted to raid a husseiniya in the area and was resisted by militiamen inside.

 

Between 18 and 21 militiamen have been killed, and the Al-Mustafa Husseiniya was reported to be badly damaged in the ensuing firefight.

 

I was on the phone with a colleague who lived there and he described it as a battlefield. Apache helicopters and jet fighters are still circling the area.

 

Al-Iraqiya TV just aired some images from the husseiniya. 17 'guards' were killed. One of the corpses carried a Da'wa party (Iraq organisation) ID, and another carried an ID issued by the Islamic Conference of Iraqi Tribes.

 

Someone in the background was asking the cameraman to film grenades lying around the corpses, to which the cameraman responded: "I can't show our guys' grenades."

 

No, these are American grenades," the man in the background explained.

 

"Oh, okay I'll film them."

 

Al-Iraqiya TV was very critical of the attack, and is describing those killed as martyrs.

 

The BBC confirms the clash.

 

At least 18 Iraqis have died in clashes between US troops and militants loyal to Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr at a Baghdad mosque, Iraqi sources report. The US military said it was investigating the reports, which came from Iraqi police, medical sources and Mr Sadr's aides. "The American forces went into Mustafa mosque at prayers and killed more than 20 worshippers," Hazim al-Araji told Reuters news agency, citing a larger death toll than the 18 counted by medical sources. AFP news agency said residents close to the scene reported hearing gunfire and ambulances, while black-clad members of Mr Sadr's Mehdi Army could be seen in the streets

 

Update

 

Bill Roggio's post on the US clashes with the Mahdi Army are well worth reading.

 

The impending fight against the Shiite militias, and particularly Sadr's Mahdi Army, has been telegraphed for some time. On March 18, Strategy Page predicted the ensuing conflict:

 

The U.S. has told Iran that the Iraqi Shia militias being supported by Iran (the Sadr and Badr organizations) are going to get taken apart soon, and Iran is well advised to back off when this happens. ...

 

Earlier this week, Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, accused Iran of sponsoring the Shiite militias and inciting sectarian violence, and alluded to a future reckonning with the militias; "The militias haven't been focused on decisively yet ...

 

The move against Sadr's militia and elements in the Interior Ministry may be isolated incidents, or may be the opening rounds of a campaign to fangled the radical Shiite elements inside and outside the government. If the move is a concerted campaign against the radical militias, this indicates the U.S. and Iraqi Army are calculating there is enough 'space' to take on a second front; the security forces can safely handle both the Sunni led insurgency and combat operations against Sadr's Madhi Army. Another possibility is the rogue militias can no longer safely be ignored, as their actions have now exceeding the threshold of tolerable violence and threaten to plunge the nation into civil war.

 

Commentary

 

Earlier, Zeyad at Healing Iraq had reported on the Mogadishu style desecration of a Sunni clerics corpse, as Sadr's men dragged his body around like a sack of trash. Zeyad said, "Note that life looks absolutely normal in the surroundings. You can see children running about, stores open, religious holiday flags and even a traffic jam. Perhaps Ralph Peters will happen to drive by with an American army patrol and enjoy the scene of children cheering for the troops, while wondering where his civil war is, dude."

 

Additional information in via the International Herald Tribune reports that Iraqi forces were active in this raid. The article details other actions which Iraqi troops have been involved with, but which required American backup. Bill Roggio has an update with finer grained detail on the units involved: "elements of the 1st Iraqi Special Operations Forces Brigade..." with "U.S. Special Operations Forces... in an advisory capacity only." Plus some discussion on whether the building raided was a full-fledged mosque or a "prayer room". The participation of Iraqi forces is good news, as it suggests a that some Iraqi officials are onboard.

 

The spin is already in. The BBC is reporting "The American forces went into Mustafa mosque at prayers and killed more than 20 worshippers". Healing Iraq notes that even on tape an Arabic speaking listener can hear the cameraman saying:

 

Someone in the background was asking the cameraman to film grenades lying around the corpses, to which the cameraman responded: "I can't show our guys' grenades."

 

"No, these are American grenades," the man in the background explained.

 

"Oh, okay I'll film them."

 

Al-Iraqiya TV was very critical of the attack, and is describing those killed as martyrs.

 

So "martyrs" it is.

 

If things don't fall apart in the coming days then the crisis will probably have passed. But the reaction of the Shi'a to this attack bears watching. From events in the past, I don't really expect any gratitude to be shown by either Sunni or Shi'a leaders for actions taken by the US to protect them against the depredations of militias. There might be some "gratitude" but what's more important is simply keeping people quiet and safe. Just my opinion.

 

More Update

 

Iraq the Model has some observations about the raid in which US and Iraqi troops are said to have massacred worshippers in a mosque.

 

Anyway, footage from the scene shows burned vehicles outside the husseiniya, empty smoke grenades and inside the place there were empty shells of BKC machine gun (the main gun mounted on most of the Iraqi army vehicles) the BKC is not a one-GI carried gun but is rather used as a supportive-fire kind of weaponry and if soldiers were to execute armless people this would not be their gun of choice because AK-47s or pistols could do the job with less noise and are much easier to carry and it makes more sense to think that this weapon was fired by the people who were hiding inside the husseiniya especially that this gun is abundant at the arsenals of militias. Also the use of smoke grenades means the assault team was expecting-and likely encountered-resistance from inside the target building. There's also the burned vehicles on the street which indicate there was gunfire coming from inside the building because the MNF report says that Iraqi soldiers were fired at "after they entered their objective" and it makes no sense at all to fire at the street behind you when you're under fire from the building you are already inside.

 

However, the best evidence that proves that members of Mehdi army were inside the building came from a prominent Sdarist parliamentarian and spokesman of the Sdar trend; Baha' al-Aaraji told al-Hurra this evening that "worshippers from inside the besieged husseiniya talked to us in person on the phone and asked for help…". So I wonder why would 'innocent ordinary worshippers' have the personal phone numbers of parliament members and Sadr office officials?!!

 

Bill Roggio believes we have to understand the raid and its denunciations within the context of Iraqi politics.

 

The raid on Sadr's milita should not be viewed as an isolated event, but as part of the continuing struggle to form the Iraqi government. The issue of the militias, and particularly Sadr's Mahdi Army, as well as Sadr's influence in the government, has come to a head. Last week, we discussed the creation of the Security Council, as well as a potential split between SCIRI and the United Iraqi Alliance over the selection of Jaafari as prime minister:

 

Commentary

 

Everybody has to get patted down before entering the government. Probably one of the reasons the negotiations to form a government are taking so long is that nobody trusts anybody to keep their guns out of the political arena. In some strange way these raids are part of the democratic process. Emphasis on strange.

 

 

posted by wretchard at 12:41 PM | 188 comments links to this post

[Texas Gentleman]

US troops defend raid, say Iraqis faked "massacre" By Alastair Macdonald

Mon Mar 27, 6:00 PM ET

 

U.S. commanders in Iraq on Monday accused powerful Shi'ite groups of moving the corpses of gunmen killed in battle to encourage accusations that U.S.-led troops massacred unarmed worshippers in a mosque.

 

"After the fact, someone went in and made the scene look different from what it was. There's been huge misinformation," Lieutenant General Peter Chiarelli, the second-ranking U.S. commander in Iraq, said.

 

He rejected the accusations of a massacre that prompted the Shi'ite-led government to demand U.S. forces cede control of security but declined to spell out which group he believed moved the bodies.

 

Government-run television has shown footage of bodies lying without weapons in what Shi'ite ministers say is a mosque compound run by radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. The security minister accused Iraqi and U.S. troops of killing 37 unarmed men.

 

Giving the first U.S. military briefing on Sunday's events in Baghdad, Chiarelli said the raid by about 50 Iraqi special forces troops backed by some 25 U.S. "advisers" had been the fruit of long intelligence work. But he said he did not know the religious affiliation of 16 "insurgents" who were killed.

 

An Iraqi was freed who had been taken hostage that day and threatened with death if he did not pay a $20,000 ransom, he said. Three fighters were wounded and 18 other people detained.

 

Chiarelli insisted the compound was not a mosque but an office complex. Neighbors and aides to Sadr call it a mosque and say it was once offices for Saddam Hussein's Baath party.

 

"There was gunfire from every room," he said.

 

Major General J.D. Thurman, whose division controls Baghdad, said: "If it was a mosque, why are they using it as a place to hold hostages?" He added that weapons, including 34 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades were also found.

 

ADVISERS

 

Chiarelli stood by the U.S. account, disputed by Sadr aides and other Shi'ite leaders but which is broadly in line with police reports and some local witnesses who spoke of a fierce gun battle around the site.

 

He said an Iraqi special forces unit with about 25 U.S. advisers, trainers, medical and bomb disposal crew in support arrived to raid the site at nightfall and were immediately fired on from a number of buildings around the compound.

 

The troops "cleared the compound," he said, killing or capturing those inside. "It was Iraqi forces who did the fighting," he stressed. Thurman said U.S. helicopters were in the air at the time but only in support of another mission.

 

All the dead were killed by Iraqi fire, Chiarelli said.

 

Chiarelli identified the hostage as a dental technician and said: "He was shown a picture of his daughter and told if he didn't pay $20,000 he was going to be dead the next day."

 

Asked about the apparent surprise, not to say disapproval, of the operation in the ruling Shi'ite Alliance bloc, Chiarelli said: "It was coordinated through military channels. Not every operation we run is coordinated with every politician in Iraq."

 

Though he declined to be drawn on the possible involvement of Sadr's Mehdi Army militia, whose political leaders have led condemnation of the raid, Chiarelli said: "I think the backlash has been caused by the folks who set the scene up."

 

Both generals praised the unidentified Iraqi unit involved for its record of discipline and minimizing the use of force. Chiarelli said: "They don't go in guns blazing."

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

The militants loyal to Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and his militia, including the Other militias need to be dealt with.. not defended by Everyday Iraqi's in my opion. Moqtada al-Sadr needs to go !!

[Texas Gentleman]

March 28, 2006

Sunday's Gunfight in Iraq

By Jack Kelly

 

A shoot out Sunday in Baghdad indicates U.S. authorities now consider Shia militias a greater danger than al Qaida. "Deaths from revenge killings now exceed those from terrorist or anti-government activity," StrategyPage noted Sunday.

 

The Iraqi government and the U.S. military have issued starkly different accounts of a gunfight around a mosque in northeast Baghdad that was being used as a headquarters by the Moqtada al Sadr's militia, the "Mahdi army."

 

An Interior Ministry spokesman said 22 "bystanders" were killed. An aide to al Sadr said 25 "innocent men" were killed. The dead included the mosque's 80-year-old imam, they said.

 

Multi-National Force Iraq said Iraqi special forces backed by U.S. troops conducted a raid to disrupt a terrorist cell. Sixteen "insurgents" were killed, 15 arrested, and a hostage was freed.

 

"No mosques were entered or damaged in this operation," the MNF-Iraq press release said.

 

An AP videotape "showed a tangle of dead male bodies with gunshot wounds on the floor of what was said by the cameraman to be the imam's living quarters, attached to the mosque itself," wrote AP reporter Steven Hurst.

 

A spokesman for the United Iraqi Alliance, the coalition of Shia religious parties who hold a plurality of seats in the Iraqi parliament, denounced what it called the "cold-blooded" killing of "unarmed" people. Jawad al Maliki demanded that control over all security matters be restored to the Iraqi government.

 

Mr. Maliki's demand may have been prompted as much by a raid by U.S. troops Sunday on an Interior Ministry building where 17 Sudanese were being held. Ten Interior Ministry troops were detained briefly.

 

The raids occurred a day after U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad urged the Iraqi government to crack down on militias. The Mahdi army, which is financed by Iran, is thought to be responsible for most of the revenge killings of Sunnis in the wake of the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra in February.

 

The news media reported accurately that the gun fight at the mosque was the worst clash with Sadr's militia in months, but didn't put it into context. It was nothing like August of 2004, when U.S. troops killed more than 2,000 members of the Mahdi army in battles in Baghdad and Najaf.

 

If the Shia militias have become the number one security problem in Iraq, it is less because the threat they pose has grown than because that posed by Sunni "insurgents" has receded.

 

If Sunday's moves marked a concerted campaign against radical militias, "this indicates the U.S. and Iraqi army are calculating there is enough space to open a second front," said military blogger Bill Roggio.

 

Back on March 18th, StrategyPage reported that: "the U.S. has told Iran that the Iraqi Shia militias being supported by Iran (the Badr and Sadr organizations) are going to get taken apart soon, and Iran is well advised to back off when this happens."

 

"Al Qaida is beaten, and running for cover," StrategyPage said Sunday. "The Sunni Arab groups that financed thousands of attacks against the government and coalition groups are now battling al Qaida, each other, and Shia death squads."

 

A crackdown on Shia militias poses a huge political problem for Ibrahim al Jaafari, who owes his nomination by the UIA for a second term as prime minister (he won by a single vote) to the support of the Moqtada al Sadr. This likely accounts for the harsh rhetoric coming from the Interior ministry, which is thought to be heavily infilitrated by the Iranian-backed militias.

 

Shias comprise more than 60 percent of Iraq's population, and a conflict with them would be disastrous. But while al Jaafari has a problem with the crackdown on militias, other Shias do not. The Moqtada did not get on the good side of Iraq's most influential cleric, the Ayatollah Ali al Sistani, when he tried to have Sistani assassinated. In 2004, most residents of Najaf expressed gratitude to U.S. troops for liberating them from the Mahdi army's brief occupation of their town.

 

"Iraqi Shia Arabs fought against Iran during the 1980s war, not because they loved Saddam, but because they feared Iranian domination," StrategyPage said. "The Sadr and Badr groups are vulnerable in this area."

 

The Iraqi officials who criticized Sunday's raids are allies of al Jaafari. The incidents may break the deadlock over the formation of a new Iraqi government, by causing the single largest group in the UIA, the SCIRI, to break away and join Kurds, Sunnis, and secular Shia parties in making SCIRI leader Abdel Mahdi prime minister.

 

"One has to wonder if that wasn't by design," Bill Roggio said. "The Coalition has been telegraphing this move for some time."

 

Email: jkelly@post-gazette.com

Page Printed from: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...ht_in_iraq.html at March 28, 2006 - 09:03:56 AM CST

[salim]

Tex wrote

Salim, why were you so quick to blame the AMERICANS ??

 

 

That is a very good question. Indeed I asked my self too. I should be more careful and wait for more cridable sources before coming with a conclusion.

However, as i expalined there were so many disturbing news all coming same time in what look like orchstrated form.

Nevertheless what I asked for seems to me legitamate : open an offical investigation. I never blamed the Americans though!

As for all the articles that you posted, I would rather shut off until official report released. Things are so confusing.

 

By the way the link of Almehdi Army to this incident seems to me not fully accurate. All those victimswho were displayed on Aliraqia were members of Aldawa party-Alaneza group,whose office was there beside the Mosque.. Also I noticed that Alsader and his aids where very fast in issueing calming messages . One other thing that I noticed, is that on the news confrence, only the dawa party members were active, while the only one member of Alsader party was kind of quite.. No any comment from Alhakeem SRCI party or other groups of EIU . Usually parties send messages of condemnations, but this time there was non.

On the Funeral, it was clear that Alsader folowers didn't show up and kept very low profile, not usuall in such incidents.

I have a feeling that Alhakim and Alsader had succeeded in managing the impact and not to invest it for political agenda.

 

Any how, as I said this incident need to be reviewed carefully by commanders on the ground.

[Guest Guest]

ا

كيف توافق امريكا على ان يحكم على الكتاب الاكراد الاحرار بالسجن لا لشيئ الا لانهم انتقدوا الحكومة او مسؤولين فيها

ها هي الحقيقة فاقرؤوها

 

السجن لكاتب أساء لسمعة زعيم كردي في العراق

الشرق الاوسط الاثنين، 27، 3، 2006

 

 

اربيل ـ رويترز: قال شهود ان كاتبا كرديا حكم عليه امس بالسجن عاما ونصف، لاتهامه الزعيم الكردي مسعود بارزاني بسوء استخدام السلطة. وكان قد حكم بادئ الامر على كمال كريم الذي يحمل ايضا الجنسية النمساوية بالسجن 30 عاما لتشويهه سمعة بارزاني، لكن اطلق سراحه وأعيدت محاكمته. وأثارت القضية اسئلة بشأن حرية الصحافة والديمقراطية في الشمال الكردي الذي يفخر بأن لديه سجلا لحقوق الانسان افضل من اي مكان آخر في العراق. وكان كريم ادين في بادئ الامر في ديسمبر (كانون الاول)، وفقا لقانون سنه البرلمان الكردي المحلي عام 2003. ويتمتع الاقليم بدرجة عالية من الحكم الذاتي، بما في ذلك سلطة التشريع وسن القوانين. ووعد القادة الاكراد بالمساعدة على تعزيز الديمقراطية وحرية الصحافة في العراق بعد سقوط صدام حسين الذي اضطهد الاكراد لعقود.

[Guest Guest]

Translation of the above..

 

How America accept to kurdish leaders jailing a free kurd writers just for critisising their government

 

Have a look to the Rueters news

___ A kurd writer was sentenced to one year and a half for publicaly critisising Albarazani by accusing him of misuse of power. The sentence on Ali kamal was thirty years, then got canceled and resencented after the world wide critisim.. It is known that Kurdish autonomous system has it's own court that this not supervised by Fedral authoroties

[salim]

Earlier, Zeyad at Healing Iraq had reported on the Mogadishu style desecration of a Sunni clerics corpse, as Sadr's men dragged his body around like a sack of trash

 

 

I don't know from where Zeyad had such report. I had my own contacts within Sader city who are anti alsader, that firmly and laughted at such news as they never heard about it. The only incident that might look like the Nogadishu style was the one related to an Alqaeda suicider . ..It is a well known story, you can ask Zeyad about it.Never the less It was not reported on any westren media or any baghdadi blog.There was a dual car expolision the the poor public market of Alsader city last week . tens killed and hundereds wounded. The wounded moved to Alsader hospital when a man approach the gate claiming of wishinh to visit a wounded relative. the Alsader local militia suspected him as he was talking with a non iraqi slung. After searching him , they found a bombing belt under his cloths that he was willing to explod inside the hospital among the wounded. the local militia draw him out side and immidiately the ungry crowd of victims family attack him and you can imagine what does that mean. Some witness claimed that they roped him on an electric post and expod him with his belt, no confirmation to those by other s whom i talked to.

 

It is so unfortunate that zeyad is mixing papers , I understand his concern as A sunni Arab living in Adhamia, where Alqaeda has its strong base and support, but we need to be more carefull dealing with un official sources.

[salim]

Between 18 and 21 militiamen have been killed, and the Al-Mustafa Husseiniya was reported to be badly damaged in the ensuing firefight.

 

This is another unfortunate false info by Zeyad.. the mosuqe or the Aldawa party center was never severly hurt. That was very clear in the life broadcasting by Aliraqi, immediately after the attack and was confirmed by a friend who lives just about 200 meters from it. He also confirmed to me that the American and their "special force" came in 8 tanks supported by 8 helicopters, and some fighters in the sky . He said that the convoy was smoothly get in as the spcial forces where wearing national guard uniforms where the neighborhood is belonging to the Iraqi army They blocked the streets to the center and force curfue . Then a heavy shooting heard. After the American army withdraw , locals in the poor crowded streets found the killed men, witnesses who escaped the incident told him that the American soldiers entred the center and the mosque and talked to the people inside through translator claiming that they are searching for terrorists. Then they check identities and freed those local to the neighbourhood . Then shoot all those who are not. I asked my friend about the heavy shooting. He told me with a surprise that he it is a buzzel for him as there is no signs of heavy fighting . By the way my friend is a suni Arab who hate Alsader more than the American army!

I also asked why the eldery Imam was also shot , he had no answer.. I don't know how much accuracy in his story but I am working to get more info from locals who are not related to the dawa party..

[salim]

There is one more piece of info that I failed to mention. When I asked him why do the American did it. His answer was a shooking for me " They might be willing to drag Almehdi Armi into large scale fight . But they failed as the center was a known Dawa party center and no Amedhi heavy presence is there in the mixed Sunni/Shia neighborhood" He explained to me that such huge force is not appropriat to such quite small neighieborhood. They might be expecting larger number of people were planned to attend a rememberance of the prophit death night that was planned to happen on that night. when asked him about the American claim that they were looking to free a kidnapped, he laughted and told me that there hunderds who kidnapped every day , why such one need so special arrangments!

[salim]

Bill Roggio has an update with finer grained detail on the units involved: "elements of the 1st Iraqi Special Operations Forces Brigade..." with "U.S. Special Operations Forces... in an advisory capacity only." Plus some discussion on whether the building raided was a full-fledged mosque or a "prayer room". The participation of Iraqi forces is good news, as it suggests a that some Iraqi officials are onboard.

 

 

I don't know why a a special force of unknown melitia is acalled Iraqi force. I thought The Iraqi word is appropriat to only Iraqi governemnt forces. There is a lot of questioning and concerns about this force, who are they ? Why are they work freely from Iraqi laws and control?why do they look like not talking straight Iraqi Arabic.. Some Iraqis told me that they might be Kurds, other said they might be Iranian Mugaheen Khalk who used to be trained by Saddam regime over the last twenty years and still have their military camps protected by the American Army, other went far to say these are Isrealis !

 

I think the American Army need to be clear on this issue as this is in clear violation to the Un resolution about exclusive authority of Iraqi governemnt to run Iraqi forces. The Iraqi governemnt seems to have no clear info about such force, that what Minister of security affairs told a reporter on Aliraqia TV. He added that such existance for a militia is to remind Iraqis of death squads used by CIA in Vetnam war. And it is better not to let them wear the Iraqi Army uniforms as this would badly impact the support of Iraqis to their newly born Army..He confirmed that they are meneceries Iraqis working and paid by the Americans though!

[moron99]

IMO -

It sounds like IA and Americans believed false information and thought that the building was full of terrorists. (IA has armor now and is regularly conducting ground operation while american helicopters stay above). Then when they show up with armored vehicles and helicopters. The people inside see all the soldiers and think they are sure to be killed and/or tortured. So they defend themselves and security forces think that the shooting means terrorists. Next thing you know security people are in attack mode. I haven't heard of any killed or wounded IA/MNF so I think that the people inside were not very well armed.

 

Now everyone is trying to avoid saying that they made mistakes and that the situation spun out of control. There are probably hundreds of times when someone tells security that their enemy is a terrorist when he is not. IA and Americans need to find out why this spun out of control and make sure that it does not happen again.

[Texas Gentleman]

Earlier, Zeyad at Healing Iraq had reported on the Mogadishu style desecration of a Sunni clerics corpse, as Sadr's men dragged his body around like a sack of trash

 

 

I don't know from where Zeyad had such report. I had my own contacts within Sader city who are anti alsader, that firmly and laughted at such news as they never heard about it. The only incident that might look like the Nogadishu style was the one related to an Alqaeda suicider . ..It is a well known story, you can ask Zeyad about need to be more carefull dealing with un official sources.

 

This is the ,MPG video recorded on a bystanders cell phone of supposedly this clerics killing by the Medhi Army. http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/mahdiarmy.mpg THE US ARMY says the whole scene was restaged ...... probablyby Sadr's militia the Medhi Army.

[salim]

Tex, I will come back on that video later..

 

 

Baha' al-Aaraji told al-Hurra this evening that "worshippers from inside the besieged husseiniya talked to us in person on the phone and asked for help…". So I wonder why would 'innocent ordinary worshippers' have the personal phone numbers of parliament members and Sadr office officials?!!

 

 

This was also what the minister of interior affiars told.He also mentioned that he personally got the call and contacted the American command center who confirmed to him that it is not related to the center but to some torrists in the are. I am wondering, the center is belonging to the Dawa party who is participated in the governement so what is the surprise in having the personal phone numbers of their rep in the parliment. I think some Iraqis are still under the old impression that Iraq is ruled by a high rank class that no one have to access before. These people are the one who ellected the rep ma! There one thing that might be missing in this whole picture. Ur disctrit is a very poor slum located at the edge of Baghdad neigbhoring Diala province where terrorist have a strong hold and they used to pentrate into Baghdad and neighboring sader city through this district with help of some locals.. Having some kind of arms to protect the mosque or the center is not a real concern , every house their need to have some personal arms , so what about a center that belongs to an active party in the governemnt. As for the Mosque the case is worse. Shia mosques are the daily target of the Aqlqaead suiciders and the sadamist car explosions.

 

Indeed , if true, it might prove one thing. That the people inside the mosque were not expecting such attack by governemnt or American forces and they never fired on the attackers, other wise why would call their rep asking him for advice on how to deal !!