salim Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I am opening a seperate post about this most important subject.. Moron99 wrote: There are three sources of earthly power. Religion, politics, and money. If two of them combine into one then it becomes more power than any human can handle. They will become driven to protect their power at any cost and they possess too much power to be stopped. That is the failure of Marx, the failure of Hassan al-Banna, the failure of the iranian revolution, the failure of hitler, the failure of stalin, the failure of Saddam. They combined too much power into the hands of too few people. This thing we call "global war on terror" is about power. It is about a group that wishes to combine the power of religion with the power of politics versus another group that wishes to keep them separate. The conflict will not end until neither of the groups threatens the borders of the other. Which side of that border do you want to live in? If you lose sight of that then it becomes a swirling mass of confusion. If you write letters that do not acknowledge the underlying struggle for power then you will not be heard by anyone with the power to stop it. Agnes Feb 18 2006, 06:45 PM Post #120 Yes, I agree with You . Religious , money ,politic .... and madnesses , war and violence trans .. and no perspectives to end it. I'm in the middle of all it . One day must be a judgement day - the truth which everybody should know. I have power inside me from God and I hope I will have it for a long time. In my letters I'm speaking to human intelligence - modern people call themselves homo superior. But there is so backward on this Earth - in nearly every country.I'm trying to make conscious people. The new age has just started .There is one chance for ALL people to understand one thing -that they are all living on one Earth ,that they all are people and everybody should have a dignity life - this life what he wants to have on this Earth. I don't think that people who are fighting really want it -- --what are theirs dreams ?? Or if they haven't already thought about an perfect life on this Earth maybe they will . Or all want to die??? So blindy ,so blindy ....and so unawareness. What are they doing ? 6 miliards eating animals , fighting ,quarreling ,hungry ,angry ,loving too, PEOPLE. One day somebody will understand all it. I will wait. I can wait .I mean authorities - so stupid,blind and madness.What they have in theirs heads? Now is Mr.Bush ,Mr.Putin , etc.etc. Allah ma'a nahnu. Ana kana amal. Salim wrote Moron99, I might go bit different here. The source of power is money and faith. Politics is just a tool faith might be religion ,idiology or even good will. Meney might be gredy , concure or even fair share among people. Moron99 wrote: a bipolar system is unstable. If you separate the politics (which is law and media) from the other two then you will have three poles. Placed upon the ground, it is much easier to build a strong shelter from three poles than two. The same is true of building a nation. It is easier to build and stronger against the storm if you use three poles instead of two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salim Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 I see. You are refering to system of life that is stable. Ineded what i was refering to is the source ,not the model it self. I felt that in history we experienced faith based systems that leveraged it's power by expanding into the wealth side. Also money based systems that exapands to faith to justify their concure. Islam is one example of the first, where a religoun got exapaned into money after the death of the prophet. Faith was used as banner covering the greedy of concure. Current American civilization might be example of the other .. Today's Bushes democracy which was built on Clinton's globalization concept is an example of money based system expanding into faith area .. The current conflict between Alaqaeda terror network and the westren world might be because of the expansion of each sect into the area of the other side .. The two had coexisted for long period before that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moron99 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 It is important that you allow the source of law (politics) and media to be independant from faith and money. Each of them will be led by men who want their pole to dominate. The three of them pushing against each other is what creates the stability. If they are not in competition and conflict then the structure is less stable. What people need protection from is men like Saddam. There is no sacred ground for them. They will don the robes of a priest and retend to be pious when it suits them. They will build business, gather money and make charitable donations when it suits them. They will hold office and become a champion of the people if that suits them. You will never know where they are coming from because they are willing to use any vehicle to achieve power (including faith). You can never see what is in their hearts because they are skilled at hiding it. By having three poles you limit the amount of power that any one of them can ever achieve. As these types of men rise to the top of their pole they will push against the other two. Which is good. To think that there is only one saddam is to ignore human nature. To think that there are no others amoung you is a fatal mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnes Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 All the world is build like that - few people are govern the countries and all the rest live in it. The biggest problem is that people who are govern the countries are not enought clever and ''clean'' inside to govern it.They are just wrong people. The second problem is - that peole who are living in countries ,I mean groups,organisations,parties etc.etc. always want something. One group of people want this thing , another group want another things. And thats the reson of inside problems in countries. Every human need something to live his life. But different minds and needs of every human results quarrels ,misunderstandings and very often even murders. Even in prehistoric times primitive people was killing themselves.And it stay untill this day. It is in human nature - eat , drink , kill the enemy and survive. And every human have other conception to survive. One want to have family and even a little money ,another must be in goovernment to feel inside satisfaction and be happy from his life. 6 miliards ideas for life . And it is nearly impossible to make agreement all people together. They are very backward ,in Africa for example,as you know ,is still over 50% of analphabetism, and people have a big war inside. Even in America ,they have 2 politics parties -democrats and republicans , and East -West in USA -another war by black people who listen a rap music. In my country we have about 10 politics parties and one big quarrel inside.And they still haven't rebuild some parts of country after the 2nd world war.Really paranoya. You had Saddam Hussein who was govering the country for a long time - I remember how some people adored him. America had Clinton, Bush now - half country love him and half nearly hate . They are authorities and normal human have no chances to change the system . Thats why I started to write my letters -at first United Nations and Vatican , and american soldiers too . To shake few people because they are still making wars - like a prehistoric people.It is after year 2000 and time to modern this world a little bit . Time to make more intelligent people , a stage in evolution. Or - how long do they want to have wars , killed families and homeless people and poor children ? To the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnes Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 And dimensions... I wonder what knowledge you have about dimensions. At first 4dimensions-the most important on our world - this world-spatial dimensions The second- virtual dimensions ,not on our Earth -more then 10 The third - nearly every one person lives in own dimension And THAT dimensions - Faith,Politic,Money,Power,Feelings,Emotions,Minds,Dreams,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moron99 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 "All the world is build like that - few people are govern the countries and all the rest live in it. The biggest problem is that people who are govern the countries are not enought clever and ''clean'' inside to govern it.They are just wrong people." To use your words ... Men who are clean inside do not like having power. Men who are not clean inside can never get enough. The idea of ever having a government that can find enough clean men and keep out the bad is an impossible dream. To make up another quip: Looking for good men that are willing to lead a country is like searching for oranges from a cart full of lemons. It is wiser to find a recipe for lemonade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnes Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 It depends what CLEAN means .It have two means. One is clean to be a good human. The second clean is clean to be an intelligent human. But I agree with you.Like a dream. Now is a nightmare. And between is a perfection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salim Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Moron99, Again.. I affriad that we are talking about two different issues. Yours is about system stabilty, mine about system(s) conflict. Conflict seems to me, has two dimensions , faith and money. However, Stability has many dimensions. Politics is a complex tool that a system devolops to establish order and help achieving goals. Any system would need politics.. Your important points of system stability are out of question here. You are refering to example of politics used by a dictatorship to justify Let me know if i made my point clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnes Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 I'm talking about people backward , stupid and madnesses. About refresh which all the world need. I'm talking about dictators,yes - my mind is - why so many people admire and love them? What is wrong in thinking of so many people.Because something is wrong if every year in every country another ''dictator'' ( I mean president) is being choosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnes Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Oh, not every year -- every four years and what the different ALL is wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moron99 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 I think you are talking about the motives behind greedy power. Frankly, that is moot. It is a theorectical argument that is between the man and allah upon the time of his death. Here on earth it does not change a thing. Before your grandchildren grow old there will be an evil man who sits upon your throne. It can not be stopped. If you are not prepared in advance then it will take a war to remove him. The only wise course of action is to be prepared in advance. Specifically to build a system that self-regulates, allows evil men to be removed without war, and balances power so that no single man can control more than 30%. If you allow the rule of law to be independant of money and religion then you have the ability to build such a system. If not, then not. What good is theory if it does not deliver any working solutions? Nonetheless, if you wish to discuss motives ... As an example about other motives I would give you the founding fathers of America. During the war of revolution they became convinced that one day they would be famous. They thought that they would plant a seed that would grow into a mighty tree and topple the kings of Europe. They competed with each other for a place in history. It is in their letters and transcripts where each of them wanted to be more famous than the next. They clamoured for debate so that they could come up with (and get credit for) being the great thinker who changed the world. Each of them wanted to go down in history as one of the greatest men to ever live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnes Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 to Salim I read few of yours speaks from other sides. I think I understood all and understood You . I have few questions and asks - is in Iraq any other forum ( I found only Baghdadee and AlIraq), and may You write me names of Iraqian newspapers and tv ( I found few but I need the most important names).And names of all groups and organisations.I will be grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnes Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 or to Maroon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnes Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 I'm like with a cross on my back . It is impossible to put a photo here ,but if you saw me you would understand something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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