Iraqi dept الديون العراقيه

[George B.]

And the debts of these nations?

 

Abacha, General Sani ----------------------------Nigeria

Amin, Idi ------------------------------------------Uganda

Banzer, Colonel Hugo ---------------------------Bolivia

Batista, Fulgencio --------------------------------Cuba

Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal ----------------------------Brunei

Botha, P.W. ---------------------------------------South Africa

Branco, General Humberto ---------------------Brazil

Cedras, Raoul -------------------------------------Haiti

Cerezo, Vinicio -----------------------------------Guatemala

Chiang Kai-Shek ---------------------------------Taiwan

Cordova, Roberto Suazo ------------------------Honduras

Christiani, Alfredo -------------------------------El Salvador

Diem, Ngo Dihn ---------------------------------Vietnam

Doe, General Samuel ----------------------------Liberia

Duvalier, Francois --------------------------------Haiti

Duvalier, Jean Claude-----------------------------Haiti

Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King ---------------------Saudi Arabia

Franco, General Francisco -----------------------Spain

Hassan II-------------------------------------------Morocco

Marcos, Ferdinand -------------------------------Philippines

Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez ---El Salvador

Mobutu Sese Seko -------------------------------Zaire

Noriega, General Manuel ------------------------Panama

Ozal, Turgut --------------------------------------Turkey

Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza ---------------Iran

Papadopoulos, George --------------------------Greece

Park Chung Hee ---------------------------------South Korea

Pinochet, General Augusto ---------------------Chile

Pol Pot---------------------------------------------Cambodia

Rabuka, General Sitiveni ------------------------Fiji

Montt, General Efrain Rios ---------------------Guatemala

Salassie, Halie ------------------------------------Ethiopia

Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira --------------------Portugal

Somoza, Anastasio Jr. --------------------------Nicaragua

Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. -------------------------Nicaragua

Smith, Ian ----------------------------------------Rhodesia

Stroessner, Alfredo -----------------------------Paraguay

Suharto, General ---------------------------------Indonesia

Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas -----------------------Dominican Republic

Videla, General Jorge Rafael ------------------Argentina

Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed ----------------------Pakistan

 

More;

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_Third.../dictators.html

[Never Ex Marine]

This post is a prime example of the thinking of the "true believers" in socialism that still exist in america today. The link is full of half truths conjucture as fact and a narrow view of complex issues.

 

هذا البريد مثال جيّد لعقليّة المؤمنين الخالصين للاشتراكيّة التي مازالت تتواجد في أمريكا . رابطته ممتلئة بحقائق النّصف و الرّؤية الضّيّقة

للموضوعات المعقّدة

[George B.]

This post is a prime example of the thinking of the "true believers" in socialism that still exist in america today. The link is full of half truths conjucture as fact and a narrow view of complex issues.

 

هذا البريد مثال جيّد لعقليّة المؤمنين الخالصين للاشتراكيّة التي مازالت تتواجد في أمريكا . رابطته ممتلئة بحقائق النّصف و الرّؤية الضّيّقة

للموضوعات المعقّدة

Spoken like a true fascist, SIR!!!

[FreeArab]

George, and what if you are right?

 

Just WHAT exactly is your point - that the world suffers from dictators and its consequences, and so, since no justice is distributed to them, that Iraq must be made to suffer too?

 

19 hostages get shot by a gunman and one escapes this injustice, but you would rather see that one hostage dead?

 

You're a socialist idiot.

[George B.]

To advocate debt relief FOR ALL OPPRESSED people, and not the latest fad and fancy of the Cult of Bush.

 

You guys forget, debt relief IS a Socialist concept. The debt relief is not for the Iraqis, it is for the new corporations planning on plundering Iraq.

[salim]

George,

The debt relief is not for the Iraqis, it is for the new corporations planning on plundering Iraq.

 

That is exactly what most of those Socialists can't understand..

In Arabic we say " Not for being in love with Omar but because of my hate to Ali" Means that My hate to Bush club would push me to kill Iraqis.. That what we saw with all those demostrations that were derived by the hate to the American policy rather than looking to Iraqis as human beings that deserve to live.

What is wrong if the interest of the new corporations coincide with the interst of Iraqis, Why do you only look to the empty half ?

[Guest Achillea]

Salim is right.

 

I really don't care whether the idea is socialist in origin, started in some Athenian debating society, or if the Muppets came up with it. A good idea is a good idea. And it's downright embarassing to me as an American how many of my countrymen are like George B. here, railing against everything that George Bush says or does, without regard to its individual merit, simply because George Bush says or does it. It's also embarassing to me, as a Democrat, to see my party behaving like children screaming that the President has given any idea he touches 'cooties.'

 

I would run this through the translator program, but I'm on vacation and away from it for the next couple of weeks. Not to mention I'm not sure it can cope with 'cooties.'

[Never Ex Marine]

Achillea & Salim Thanks for taking over I was away from the computer for a couple of days.

 

George so pointing out the slant of your link is fascism?

 

I only read the details of a couple of your "dictators" listed on the site. They were ones that I had studied at length as well as had personal experience with in my life. I have very little patience for self hatered and your link was full of it. There is no other country in the history of the world that has done as much good for people in other parts of the world as America. We are not perfect and I know that our national interest at times is in conflict with what's right for others but my statement is still valid.

 

قرأت تفاصيل دكتاتورك المحصورين على الموقع فقط . كانوا تلك اللّواتي التي قد درستهنّ في الطّول وأيضًا كان لدى تجربة شخصيّة في حياتي . لديّ صبر صغير جدًّا لهاتيريد النّفس و رابطتك كانت ممتلئة به . ليس هناك بلد آخر في تاريخ العالم الذي قد عمل مثل الجيّد للنّاس في الأجزاء الأخرى من العالم كأمريكا . نحن غير ممتازون و أعرف أن مصلحتنا القوميّة أحيانًا في تناقض مع ما الصّحيح للآخرين لكنّ تصريحي صحيح حتّى الآن .

[George B.]

I have worked with, (a family of ministers within the Assemblies of God churches) many churches, and have found that very corrupt pastors and elders have always justified their sins by blaming others and defending some of the most guilty out of a cult of personality. This seems to be happening with Iraq. The Bush administration is allowing American businesses to strip the autonomous ability of local businessmen to make money. Instead of calling the administration on this “sin” you have baptized the sin for fear of appearing disloyal in the Cult of Bush.

 

You should put the Iraqis before Bush’s image. You are so committed to an image of America, you will be blind to those who would use that image to manipulate you.

[Guest Achillea]

Actually, I voted for Gore.

 

I don't think George Bush is perfect, nobody is. I certainly don't worship him, that is reserved for my Goddess. But I find the above post informative -- as to George B.'s thought processes. Apparently, to praise some good George Bush has done, or even to defend him against partisan calumny, makes one a mindless 'Bushayeen.' This sort of arrogant, insulting mindset has become the hallmark of the liberal left these days. Dare to point out they're wrong and you're just a brainwashed fool, poor soul.

[salim]

George,

You should put the Iraqis before Bush’s image

 

To whom would this good point go ?

I would like you go through your last posts..Check if you aren't doing what you ask not to..?

[Never Ex Marine]

I haven't seen anybody on this board saying that debt relief for everybody is a good thing what we are talking about is the case of Iraq and whether or not the Iraqi people should be responsible for the Debt Incurred under Saddam.

 

لم أر أي شخص على هذه اللّوحة أقول أن تخفيف الدّين للجميع شيء جيّد ما نتكلّم عنه هو قضيّة العراق و سواء أو ليس يجب أن يكون الشّعب العراقيّ مسئول عن الدّين المتحمّل تحت صدام

 

They are responsible only as far as they did not find a way to get rid of him but the fact that he left tens of thousands dead in his wake shows that they did try. An even greater share of the blame for his debt falls on the UN for making deals for oil while Iraq was under sanctions.

 

هم مسئولون فقط حتّى لم يجدوا طريقةً للتّخلّص منه لكنّ حقيقة أنه ترك عشرات الآلاف ميّتًا في سهره يظهر أنهم قد حاولوا . نصيب أكبر حتّى للوم لانخفاضات دينه على الأمم المتّحدة لعقد الاتّفاقيّات للزّيت بينما كان العراق تحت العقوبة .

 

 

 

As for who is skimming money and taking advantage of the sitiuation in Iraq to further the business interests of American Companies it is an unfortunate side affect of war. It has happend in every war held for at least the last 500 years. This does not make it right but it also does not make the war an unjust or evil thing.

 

بالنّسبة إلى الّذي يمرّر بسرعة المال و يجني فائدة من السيتييوشن في العراق إلى أكثر مصالح أعمالهم هو جانب بائس يؤثّر للحرب . لديه هابيند في كلّ حرب ممسوكة لعلى الأقلّ آخر 500 سنة . هذا لا يجعله صحيح لكنه أيضًا لا يجعل الحرب شيئًا شرّيرًا أو ظالمًا .

[Guest Guest]

I think the debt should be repudiated immediately.

 

It would certainly send a clear message to the world: do business with a tyrant and you could be throwing money into a whole.

[aldoctor]

Dear All:

I have a detailed study I did of this, but it is the property of the Institute fro economic development. It is also way too long and detailed to mention here. Here is the jist of the debt issue.

1) No one knows how much we owe.

All these are estimates based on arbitrary interest rates and principle amounts.

2) The war reparations are a different animal than sovereign debt.

Debts can be dealt with through cancellation, and rescheduling. There are two types of debts. Debts accumulated before 1990 and debts accumulated after 1990. All debts accumulated after 1990 can be litigated as given illegally to a dictator. The rest is left to fine American and Iraqi diplomacy.

War reparations we have to pay by international law. Unless the people we owe it to forfeit. The Bulk of this debt is owed to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The amount is around 50 million. The other fifty million may be frivolous claims. Nevertheless, the U.N has paid around 100 Billion dollars in reparation during the past 14 years. They also have been “improperly handling” Iraqi oil for food program money. after prosecuting those responsible, the balance should be paid by U.N. It is ironic how esily then they may issue a law concelling the original dictating payment.

 

The situtation has changed since I did the report. Things changed to the better. If you know the developments please help me update this.

 

Lastly.

Iraqi money taht was stolen by sadam was used also to buy the the hired hand taht killed Iraqis on his behalf and do his bidding. These people's money should be confiscated and used to repay the debt. We should also charge them interest and or a fine. They shoudl be happy we don't hang them for high treason.

I imagine that some people with sufficient involvement in the former regime should be taxed to compensate and payoff some of the Iraqi debt because it is their complicity that allowed Sadam to use Iraq's name to squander national wealth.

[aldoctor]

I would like to expand because some people like metaphors. It is not as simple as the metaphor of the gunmen and the hostages. It is more complicated. Here is more detail to the metaphor: when he took everyone's wallet he called the credit cards companies and even though they knew he was a hostage takes. They extended him credit. Then they required payments from the hostages.

By the way, I appreciate posts done by Safaa. His posts are informative, well argued and of optimal length. They do not slander and are free of fallacies of weak induction which are rampant in some other posts. Also pleas refrain from this dogmatic commitment to ideologies. Example:

X is a bad idea because it is from Y ideology

If you can not logically analyze it and prove the idea wrong, improbable, impractical, based on examining the argument or its premise. Then please go read something and stop writing.