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An Iraq Resolution: Could it be this Simple?


An American Seeking the Direct Input of the Iraqi People  

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I think this is a tricky question.Leave when? Now ? Latter?. You need also to add a third option: to stay until Iraq ellected Parliament call them to leave.. This is how the current UN mandate is saying

 

People want to stay for now but not for ever..

 

I agree this is a tricky question...with room for the third answer you have proposed (if I could figure out how to add it as an option to the poll choices I would)

 

What we would be reaching for is a mandate from the people of Iraq. The media, the International Community and the American people are turning against the efforts to assist you in establishing a free and soverign nation.

 

A mandate of support directly from the Iraqi people could go a long ways to rallying the support needed to get the job done and acknowlege that the sacrifices being made by all are not being made in vain.

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I think this is a tricky question.Leave when? Now ? Latter?. You need also to add a third option: to stay until Iraq ellected Parliament call them to leave.. This is how the current UN mandate is saying

 

People want to stay for now but not for ever..

Should Coalition of Peace Keeping forces leave Iraq?

 

a fourth option :

Yes. The way the allies left Germany after WW II.

 

The US still has bases in Germany after the official end of WW II .......sixty years ago only because the threat following the defeat of the rulers of Germany left a power vacuum that needed filled with an acceptable new government that wouldn't be a threat again to its neighbors.

 

US forces need to pull out of Iraqi cities and let the anti coalition insurgency decide if this is the right way to end violence. The insurgency must be divided between anti coalition and anti democracy.

Some elements of the insurgency will continue to fight Iraqis after the coalition forces leave Iraqi cities. They must be identified and defeated by the Iraqi people

with coalition help if called upon. The coalition forces can't do ALL the fighting for Iraq. That would be a pointless mission.

 

Get rid of Saddam and you get rid of those most loyal to a Saddam return to power. Only then can progress through amnesty truely begin.

Burn the bridges of loyality to Saddam.

It may not be that simple but it is a concrete start, a no turning back point.

 

Forgot to ad this as a response to the original question;

Do You Think That Coalition Peace Keeping Forces Should Leave Iraq?

 

If the peacekeeping forces remain as they are in place now.......then there will never be true "peace" in Iraq.

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This an interesting question..

 

Let me suggest the answers in the following way

 

-Stay the course as is until the Iraqi governement asks for leave

 

-Start to Re alocate to withdraw from Iraqi cities and to play a support only rule. Giving Iraqi government the say on the security file.

 

-Announcement of time table of withdraw from one side.

 

-Start withdrawing now..

 

 

I am voting for the second !

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This an interesting question..

...............

(2nd) -Start to Re alocate to withdraw from Iraqi cities and to play a support only rule. Giving Iraqi government the say on the security file.

...............

I am voting for the second !

 

Salim,

 

if most Iraqi's believe this is not already the case as you don't believe it is, then we (US) should leave now. Iraqi's are very quick to take credit, but even quicker to blame someone else. As I've said before, your Iraqi pride far exceeds your ability at this time.

 

Apparently, what you think is best..... is ALREADY UNDER IRAQ GOVERNMENT CONTROL.......so allowing the SHIA militia's to run wild (as your Government has and still does and as you have requested) is killing all the Sunni's, and each other (Mahdi vs. Badr.) THAT is your biggest problem today,

 

Maybe US troops should redeploy to IRAQs borders sealing them from anyone coming in who can't irrefutably prove they are Iraqi born, while letting you all go at it till the last SHIA stands ? That might at least get the Terrorist, Syrians and Iranians out of the equation !!!!!

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Texasman,

 

Assuming your are right,

- this governemnt is a shia , not unified with Minister of defence and vice president and vice PM and head of intellegence as Sunni Arab not mentioning other key positions for Sunni Kurds,

- While Qaeda just announced the Islamic emirate in support for Baathists, our main priority should be the the Shia "militia" who are to blame on the daily suiciders and bombs that kill Americans in Sunni part of Baghdad and Iraq inaddition to Iraqis all aver Iraq.

-Foolish Iraqis are shelling each others with morters and not Sadamists as their punishment to Iraqis for the low reaction of protests for Sadam verdict.

 

Assume all above is correct.. What is your option to vote for? Just wondering!!

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As I've said before, your Iraqi pride far exceeds your ability at this time

 

What!!!? As if the Iraqis are the one who run the security file over the last three years..

Hand cuffed Iraqis are facing the highest wave of the the terror of well financed and equiped Qaeda and baathists, and some one is talking about ability.. What did you achieve as far as ability in commiting to your UN mandate of responsibilty of protecting the Iraqis ? Mr. Abaility! Let take it by us and then you can talk about what is ability

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Texasman,

 

Assuming your are right,

- this governemnt is a shia , not unified with Minister of defence and vice president and vice PM and head of intellegence as Sunni Arab not mentioning other key positions for Sunni Kurds,

- While Qaeda just announced the Islamic emirate in support for Baathists, our main priority should be the the Shia "militia" who are to blame on the daily suiciders and bombs that kill Americans in Sunni part of Baghdad and Iraq inaddition to Iraqis all aver Iraq.

-Foolish Iraqis are shelling each others with morters and not Sadamists as their punishment to Iraqis for the low reaction of protests for Sadam verdict.

 

Assume all above is correct.. What is your option to vote for? Just wondering!!

 

None of the above is a viable option and NOT representative of any views I have. ....None of that truly represents the situation on the ground. Some need to look farther than their Shia Proud glasses are allowing them. The Shia factions are becoming their own worst enemy.

 

A few facts:

 

Minister of Defense (MOD) : 'Abd al-Qadir Muhammad Jasim al-'Ubaydi (a Sunni?)

 

The Iraq Regular Army (IA), is under the Minister of Defense

As of May 15, 2006, 117,900 MOD personnel have been trained and equipped, including 116,500 in the Iraqi Army, Support Forces, and Special Operation Forces. This is 86% of MOD authorized force strength.

 

This fall, the Iraqi government and Multinational Forces-Iraq announced the expansion of the Army by three divisions and increase the manpower of the Army by 37 percent over the next nine months. This includes:

- 18,000 new personnel to replace combat losses, desertions, etc.

- 12,000 new personnel to over-man the combat battalions at 110 percent (this will account for the Army's liberal leave policy.)

- 18,700 new personnel to establish 3 new Division headquarters, 5 new Brigade HQs, 20 new Battalions and 1 new Special Operations Forces Battalion.

- 10,000 new personnel will be trained every 2 months.

 

 

Minister of Interior (MOI) : Jawad al-Bulani (A Shi'ite)

 

aligned with Chalabi's Shi'ite Political Council, and ran as part of the UIA slate in January 2005. Resigned his party membership immediately prior to his appointment as interior minister on 12 June 2006.

 

Local Police, National Police, Border Forces are under the Minister of Interior

The “National Police” refers to units formerly known as the Ministry of Interior National Special Police (e.g., National Police Commandos and Public Order Battalions) and not to the Iraqi Police Service (“beat cops”), which is a national police service.

 

145,500 MOI personnel, including police, National Police, border forces, and other MOI personnel, have been trained and equipped, which reflects 77% of the MOI authorized end-strength. The MOD and the MOI are on

track to complete initial training and equipping of 100% of their authorized end-strength by the end of December 2006

 

While those MoD and MoI actual MEMBERS should need NO HELP from ANY private Shia Militias, is it a conscious decision of Maliki not to disband them?

 

WHY NOT ? to use against the al-Qaeda claims of 12,000 fighters available? or the insurgent Sadddamist numbering maybe another 12,000 ? .... or maybe another 12,000 Syrian/Iranians/Saudi/Yememi’s suiciders/terrorist etc.? 36,000 in TOTAL insurgency if you believe their own claims... even if double those numbers, the ISF is enough if they didn't have to also quell factional SHI-ITE militias fighting each other and disrupting the efforts of legitimate ISF/MNF forces totaling more than 300,000 LAWFUL Iraq ISF forces (including MNF)! HOWEVER:

 

While your (MoD) Iraqi Army Proudly functions well against both Sunni Insurgency and the Terrorist, (PRIME TARGET) it is quite another thing regarding the MoI forces who are corrupted, and religiously sectarian.

 

Unfortunately it is the MoI who has control over the MAJORITY of the weapons purchased for the ISF vs. the MoD and is made up from what used to be Badr Corp with a lesser extent of Sadr Militia infiltrated. In September 2003 Leaders of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Resistance in Iraq (SCIRI) confirmed that the group's armed force, the Badr Corps, remained active despite a US demand that the (ALL) militias disband. It is this group of militia that IRAQ POLITICIANS legaly included into the MoI security forces. The Mahdi Army (who mostly refused to join) fights with them and the MOD's IA & MNF forces causing nearly as much death to Shi-ites as ALL terrorist & Sunni insurgency combined. Niether the IA or the MNF trust them. Both attack the Iraqi Army and MNF interventions to stop them from random Sunni killings OR battles between each other. Both of them revenge kill each other and ANY Sunni on sight. Both are loyal to themselves and not a National Iraq.

 

South of Baghdad in Iraq has become a pitiful place (as soon as it was handed off to MoI forces from the British) ....that is because of SHIA religious militias and MoI corrupt police units, not the Sunni insurgency or terrorist. This is the un needed 2nd front that will destroy your country Salim.

 

Until the unlawful Shia Militias disband and the MOI forces become loyal to IRAQ ONLY and not individual religious sects/ political groups you're in for a hard slog of death and destruction.

 

PS:

Salim & Tajer,

 

I stand by my statements ...they are NOT intended to insult ... they ARE intended to shock your biases.

 

All Shia GOOD + all Sunni BAD = WRONG & BIASED

 

..........................................................................

 

 

 

Texasman,

 

, the Badr Corps, remained active despite a US demand that the (ALL) militias disband. It is this group of militia that IRAQ POLITICIANS legaly included into the MoI security forces. The Mahdi Army (who mostly refused to join) fights with them and the MOD's IA & MNF forces causing nearly as much death to Shi-ites as ALL terrorist & Sunni insurgency combined.

 

..........................................................................

 

Correction: the above should read;

 

The Mahdi Army (who mostly refused to join) fights with them and AGAINST the MOD's IA & MNF forces causing nearly as much death to Shi-ites as ALL terrorist & Sunni insurgency combined.

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All Shia GOOD + all Sunni BAD = WRONG & BIASED

 

 

Feel so sorry that you came to such conclution.. Would you please go through my three years contributions and let me know where, when I might even refer to such discustion critera per your above equation.. Just go to my praise to Zalmai Khalil Zad efforts in bringing more Sunni Arab on board..

 

Still stand to my question though.. What is your option to vote for

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All Shia GOOD + all Sunni BAD = WRONG & BIASED

 

 

Feel so sorry that you came to such conclution.. Would you please go through my three years contributions and let me know where, when I might even refer to such discustion critera per your above equation.. Just go to my praise to Zalmai Khalil Zad efforts in bringing more Sunni Arab on board..

 

Still stand to my question though.. What is your option to vote for

 

 

I thought I was clear about the choices you listed to vote on ... NONE OF THEM !!

 

Salim,

Recently you've maintained we (Iraq ) couldn't handle the (SHIA) militias at same time we are fighting terrorist and Insurgents .. would be a dangerous 2nd front you said, ..... and we are not strong enough to do terrorist and al Sadr at same time.. I SAY BS .. they are one and the same kind of murdering bunch with different names/sects/agendas and need to be handled NOW as part of the MAIN problem ... not later so they can continue to kill until then..... and NEVER shown ANY favors because they are part of Maliki's supporting political party. He released some (to many) Mahdi Army we captured killing some of MY children. Why should I have respect or trust in him ? Why should my children die for your politicians, who corrupted half your security forces of the MOI? ...so you can blame it on the US MILITARY? .... Maybe IT IS time we came home and you can then blame your problems on the mulla behind door # 1 or #2 after or during the time you're all killing each other.

 

Below is a start for Maliki today, ..now let us take al Sadr down if you can't or wont !! :

 

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki rebuked lawmakers for putting party and sectarian loyalty ahead of Iraq's stability, and said he was planning a sweeping Cabinet reshuffle.

 

The spiraling sectarian violence has put al-Maliki under intense pressure. Responding to questions from lawmakers during a more-than one-hour closed session, he ordered them to stop criticizing his government and declare their loyalty to a unified Iraq - not their religious sects or political parties, two members of parliament told The Associated Press.

 

found here;

 

Blasts Kill 35 at Iraq Police Recruit HQ

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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"I thought I was clear about the choices you listed to vote on ... NONE OF THEM !!"

I asked about which option "not necessary my sugessted ones" you would go regarding American military presence in Iraq..

 

If there is such thing that you are talking about then for sure we need to go after these Shia criminals first. Because they do more harm working from within .The problem is that you are making a case based on allegations with no any prove.Is there a list other than the sixty criminals that Iraqi police had identified and follow after . If Maliki is releasing criminals who had killed Americans, as you just claimed, then President Bush needs to be prosecuted beacuase he keeps saying that he has full confindence in Maliki. Not only President Bush but the military commanders too.. Which one I need to believe ?

 

Anyhow, I need to keep my self very clear, there should be no difference between criminals, Shia , Sunni ..Arab or kurd.. criminal is a criminal.

 

 

You didn't reply to my question, where when I even might refered to such awful criteria per your strange equation ?

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Salim,

 

I will answer each of the questions you ask and quoted below , however I can not answer in quite the brief form of your questions as you are requiring OTHER THAN MY WORD for it already submitted. So what I will do is research and provide with links to why I have made these serious accusations. Although these links I provide will be NEWS accounts-- my personal awareness of them come directly from the BOOTS on the GROUND in Iraq.

 

Try and remember I am just as Interested in a Peaceful, Prosperous and Free Iraq as any of you.

 

Your questions quoted;

.......... 1.

If there is such thing that you are talking about then for sure we need to go after these Shia criminals first. Because they do more harm working from within .The problem is that you are making a case based on allegations with no any prove. Is there a list other than the sixty criminals that Iraqi police had identified and follow after .

.......... 2.

If Maliki is releasing criminals who had killed Americans, as you just claimed, then President Bush needs to be prosecuted beacuase he keeps saying that he has full confindence in Maliki. Not only President Bush but the military commanders too.. Which one I need to believe ?

.......... 3.

You didn't reply to my question, where when I even might refered to such awful criteria per your strange equation ?

 

Answer;

.......... 1. from above (yes my friend there are 1000's and not only sixty) plus I don't think we need to go after these guys first.. I have never said that ! I have said we need to go after them NOW, the same as ALL murdering terrorist and insurgents. THE MFN is capable NOW.. and the only thing stopping that is Maliki's PERMISSION. These murdering criminals are the CAUSE of much ordinary Sunni resistance. (check out that link)

 

see links for complete articles in titles below if you doubt my context

(partial excerpts below)

 

In Baghdad, a Force Under the Militias' Sway

Infiltration of Iraqi Police Could Delay Handover of Control for Years, U.S. Trainers Suggest

By Amit R. Paley

Washington Post Staff Writer

Tuesday, October 31, 2006; A01

BAGHDAD -- The signs of the militias are everywhere at the Sholeh police station.

 

Posters celebrating Moqtada al-Sadr, head of the Mahdi Army militia, dot the building's walls. The police chief sometimes remarks that Shiite militias should wipe out all Sunnis. Visitors to this violent neighborhood in the Iraqi capital whisper that nearly all the police officers have split loyalties.

 

And then one rainy night this month, the Sholeh police set up an ambush and killed Army Cpl. Kenny F. Stanton Jr., a 20-year-old budding journalist, his unit said. At the time, Stanton and other members of the unit had been trailing a group of Sholeh police escorting known Mahdi Army members.

 

"How can we expect ordinary Iraqis to trust the police when we don't even trust them not to kill our own men?" asked Capt. Alexander Shaw, head of the police transition team of the 372nd Military Police Battalion, a Washington-based unit charged with overseeing training of all Iraqi police in western Baghdad. "To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure we're ever going to have police here that are free of the militia influence."

-------------------------------------------------

 

Iraqi Police Force Facing Shake-Up

http://abcnews.go.com/International/print?id=2568329

Iraqi Interior Ministry Fires 3,000 Police Workers Accused of Corruption, Rights Abuses

By DAVID RISING

The Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq Oct 14, 2006 (AP)— Iraq's Shiite-dominated Interior Ministry, whose police forces have been accused of complicity in sectarian attacks, has fired 3,000 employees accused of corruption or rights abuses and will change top commanders, a spokesman said Saturday.

……………

The Shiite-led national police force, controlled by the Interior Ministry, is widely accused of being infiltrated by Shiite militias blamed in slayings of Sunni Arabs. Critics say Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has been reluctant to move against the militias since many are linked to parties in his coalition.

 

The U.S. embarked on an intensive neighborhood-by-neighborhood sweep of the capital in August in a crackdown on the killings.

 

But Sadr City, the sprawling Shiite slum of about 2 million where radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia draws much of its support, has been left alone, and U.S. commanders say they are waiting on the command from al-Maliki's government.

 

When al-Maliki's government was formed in May, Interior Minister Jawad Bolani was given the post as top security official in large part because he had no militia links. But his lack of militia connections also has given him less leverage to make change.

 

Earlier this month, an entire brigade of some 700 policemen was suspended from service and taken to barracks because of suspected militia sympathies. The commander of one of the brigade's battalions faces criminal prosecution and others are being investigated.

 

The troops were suspected of allowing Shiite militias to operate freely in their area, where there had been a mass kidnapping of some two dozen people from a frozen food factory, at least seven of whom have since been found dead.

......................................................

 

Iraqi police rife with abuse, corruption: Ministry of Interior documents

 

LOS ANGELES (AFP) - Iraq's police force is riddled with corruption and its officers have been involved in abductions, murders and prisoner rape, according to claims.

 

The confidential Iraqi Ministry of Interior documents, which detail more than 400 police corruption investigations, were authenticated by current and former police officials, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday, citing Iraqi government documents.

 

They include reports of Iraqi police participating in insurgent bombings and releasing terror suspects for bribes, as well as selling stolen and forged Iraqi passports and beating prisoners to death.

…………………

Information in the Iraqi documents reported by the Times, which cover most of 2005 and part of 2006, includes reports that:

(See extensive list)

…………………..

A separate report in English by private contractors hired by the US State Department to train police notes that "the current climate of corruption, human rights violations and sectarian violence found in Iraq's security forces undermines public confidence," according to the Times.

 

"Elements of the MOI have been co-opted by insurgents, terrorists and sectarian militias. Payroll fraud, other kinds of corruption and intimidation campaigns by insurgent and militia organizations undermine police effectiveness in key cities throughout Iraq," the report added.

.......................................................................

 

Iraqi Police Retrained as Security Challenges Persist, Corruption Taints Force

 

But in a surprising move we saw two Iraqi police vehicles pulled over and searched.

"Can we have a look in the boot?" asked Lance Cpl. Kris Moore. The 23-year-old was looking for firearms, as many of the British troops here in the south don't trust the local police.

 

"They are quite corrupt," More said. "Some of the police stations are corrupt."

 

And it's not just in Basra. Coalition officials admit that militias have infiltrated many of the local police across the country, and the vast majority of the 188,000 man force is not up to the job it is supposed to be carrying out.

 

Earlier this month, the Iraqi Interior Minister took the dramatic step of standing down an entire national police brigade. Members of the 8th Brigade are suspected of assisting, or turning a blind eye to militiamen who entered a meat-packing plant and kidnapped more than 20 workers.

 

This news came just days after U.S. forces started retraining the entire national police force.

 

The national police force, which makes up 10 percent of the overall Iraqi police, has been in the field for more than a year. The 20,000 men are now undergoing three weeks of training and will be issued new uniforms that will be difficult to counterfeit, and will then be put back on the streets.

 

Military officials say the Iraqi police are key to bringing security to the country, and have dubbed 2006 the Year of the Police.

 

But nearly 10 months into the effort, senior military leaders concede that only 70 percent of the police are "partially capable" of carrying out planning and operations on their own.

 

American leaders have complained that the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has not done enough to weed out the militia members who have infiltrated the police. And, even a general with the national police force said security will come to Iraq "when politicians speak with a unified voice."

................................................................................

 

 

In Southern Iraq

http://www.worldpoliticswatch.com/article.aspx?id=247

 

Several British soldiers have died in Qarmat Ali, victims of the area's xenophobic, deeply religious and heavily armed Shiite residents and the armed wings of the local religious parties. Ideally, the city's native police force would keep the peace in Qarmat Ali, but cops here are corrupt "on an industrial scale," according to one British officer, and "infiltrated by special interest groups" -- i.e., militias and murder gangs -- according to another. The resulting three years of lawlessness have been too long, and now the coalition is eager to retake the neighborhood.

..............................................................

 

Iraqi government investigations document rampant police corruption, abuse

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006...estigations.php

 

Department of State press release], promising a renewed effort to instill professionalism in the force. The US State Department has noted, however, that "despite great progress and genuine commitment on the part of many ministry officials, the current climate of corruption, human rights violations, and sectarian violence found in Iraq's security forces undermines public confidence." President Bush has said that securing a legitimate Iraqi police force is crucial to an eventual withdrawal of US troops. AFP has more.

........................................

those are but a few fairly current ones like that......... there are SO MANY over 2005 and 2006

 

then there also are these:

 

Ethnic Cleansing in a Baghdad Neighborhood?

 

Baghdad raids hit death squads

 

Iraqi police ambushed near Basra

 

Iraq: End Interior Ministry Death Squads

 

Ministers of Death

 

57 Iraqi Police Charged With Torture

 

Iraqis charged over secret jail

 

Iraqi Army raids murder, kidnapping cell in Sadr City

 

Iraqi Army conducts raid to find missing Soldier

 

Iraqi VP opposes lifting blockade around Sadr city

 

Sadr himself approved Sadr City raid: aide

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

 

Iraqi "sources" says major cabinet reshuffle planned

 

LATEST BREAKING NEWS

Associated Press

Blasts Kill 35 at Iraq Police Recruit HQ

 

I will get to your other questions as time permits............ it takes longer to post em with links than to find them. Have a good day

 

TEX

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My question was , if you have such a list , then why didn't the Coalition submitted to the Iraqi government to follow them up.. Using such in-air allegations to cover a mass collective punishment is nothing but to follow the stupid Bremer's Allawee plan of mass attacking Falouja which did no thing but to turn the sunni arab Iraqis against the political process

 

With full due respect to my friend , It is so shocking that you call the criminal acts of killing Iraqis and coalition forces as RESISTANCE.. I started to doubt if you are same Texas Gentleman that we know or some one hacked your account

 

What are you calling as "a CAUSE of much ordinary Sunni resistance" were the Allied for that "resistance" until they decided to join the political process. Till ten months ago, the "resistance" propaganda were considering them as part of their coalition. After the decision by Sadrees to join the elections last year, we started to hear these stories from Baathists that you listed an echo. There are hunderds of such articles . They simply want to punish Alsadrees for their brave and responsible decision to go for the political resistance..

 

 

Just to prove my point that these are an echo to Sadamists propaganda, please do same search and try to find how many of them are covering the brave Sunni Arab Anbar UP RISE against Qaeda and Sadamists.

 

Following your equation methodology, this is

 

All good Sunni are Shia, all Shia are bad ==bias against Arab Iraqis

 

My point view equation is

 

All those who choose to go through political process are good

All those who choose terror and violence are Bad

Conclution: We should support the national unity government

 

Still stand to my request

What is your option that you might vote for

Why you labeled me with such unfair accusation at a time through my last three years contribution to Baghdad, I never showed other than the call to strong Iraq that democratic and free.. May such call made you think I am biased, I mean biased against terrorists! Who knows

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