Woody1965 Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 There was a letter on this site that referred to a man who cried over Saddam's humiliation even though the regime had killed members of his family. Zeyad, one of the Iraqi bloggers, had similar feelings, saying he felt shame, and then was angry at himself for feeling ashamed. I've read other stories about Iraqis who say they are glad Saddam is caught, but they feel sad and humiliated. That's confusing to most Americans. I don't understand. Why would Saddam being humiliated make you feel ashamed? It wasn't your fault! Could some Iraqis explain this phenomenon for us? Also, what can be done to help Iraqis get over that feeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Grey Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Sorry I'm not an Iraqi, but feeling humiliated shouldn't be so strange for any American -- hundreds of Angry Leftists seem to feel that way about Bush. It seems to be a human trait to personify many nationalistic/ patriotic feelings in "the head of state", whereby humiliation to that head is felt as humiliation by the nation. Saddam the tyrant was a terrible monster - mythic, cruel, evil ... BIG. Saddam the deposed was just an old fugitive, a tired old dirty homeless man (with $750 000 in cash). Cowardly. Pathetic. How would you like it to find out you were adopted, and he was really your grandfather? On the other hand, non-Iraqi Arabs who supported Saddam SHOULD be humiliated -- because Iraq is getting free speech. And they're not. And it's their own fault, and that of their cowardly leaders. Arafat, Assad, Saudi princes, Iranian mullahs (OK, Persian) -- of these Muslim leaders are afraid of free speech. Afraid of words. Cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salim Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 اجابه على استفسار ودي1965 هناك رساله على هذا الموقع لرجل بكى لرؤيه صدام بهذا العار بالرغم من انه قتل بعضا من اهله.. وكذلك هناك تعليق لزياد على بلوك عراقي اخر , قائلا انه شعر بالعار وبعد ذلك بالغضب على نفسه من شعوره هذا... قرأت قصصا اخرى لعراقيين قالوا انهم فرحوا للقبض عليه ولكنهم شعروا ايضا باللالم والاهانه. مل هذا محير بالنسبه لاكثر الامريكان. انا لاافهم كيف ان يهان صدام يشعركم بالعار؟ انه لم يكن خطأكم! هل لاحد العراقيين ان يوضح لي هذه الضاهره لنا؟ اعتقد ان هناك سوء فهم بالترجمه. فالعراقيون لايشعرون بالعار ولكنهم ربما يشعرون بالالم وهذا م كان يفصده ابو احمد في مقاله. ربما هناك من يشعر بالاسف ان يكون شخص وضيع مثل الذي ضهر على حقيقته هو سبب كل معاناتهم. هناك طبعا من يشعر انه جزء من التجربه الصداميه وقد تربى على صوره صدام القائد.. لقد كانت صدمه لهم حتى لو كانوا لايتفقون معه. واخيرا فقد تربينا على مقوله "ارحموا عزيزي قوم ذل" لذا فطبيعتنا العربيه الاسلاميه تابى ان نكون من المتشمتين حتى بمن قتل اخواننا ولكن اعتقد ان الجميع يتفقون ان ذاك درس لكل الجبابره الذين يهينون شعوبهم Woody1965 's: There was a letter on this site that referred to a man who cried over Saddam's humiliation even though the regime had killed members of his family. Zeyad, one of the Iraqi bloggers, had similar feelings, saying he felt shame, and then was angry at himself for feeling ashamed. I've read other stories about Iraqis who say they are glad Saddam is caught, but they feel sad and humiliated. That's confusing to most Americans. I don't understand. Why would Saddam being humiliated make you feel ashamed? It wasn't your fault! Could some Iraqis explain this phenomenon for us? Also, what can be done to help Iraqis get over that feeling I think that there is a misunderstanding here, Most Iraqis don't feel humilated, they feel pain .. At least that what Abu Ahmed was refering to. Probably, there are some that feel sorry that such a coward person is the one responsible for all of their sufferings. Other were raised within the regime propoganda and would look to him as a big dady..Though they might disagree with him Finaly , we are raised with an Islamic/arab tradition of " Mercy for humilated one who was with dignity" > But all are agree that this is a great lesson for all those tyrants that humilate their people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Garrity Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 From what I've read it seems like it or not Saddam was the symbol of Iraq for so long that his capture instead of a fight to the death was disappointing. If I lived under a murderous tyrant and he showed up on TV looking like a frightened skid row bum I'd be disappointed too. But by the looks of it he's had a hard time of it the last 8 months and he surely will from now on so until the trial starts I wouldn't waste too much time thinking about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Grey Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 In rereading more of Zeyed, part of the humiliation is the impotence. Saddam killed those who opposed him. The Iraqi people could not overthrow him. If he is a demigod, it is reasonable for the Iraqis to be unable to stop him. But he's only an old man. If he's so weak, but the Iraqi people couldn't stop him, how weak are they? But in fact he was surrounded by bully-cowards. His terror must be exposed as publicly, and completely, and in as much detail as possible. And Iraqis must learn about history, how difficult, nearly impossible, any insurrection against a dictator is when the dictator is willing to kill. And his troops follow orders to murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahlol Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 اؤيد الاخ سيلم فيما قال .كما نا الشعب العراقي شعب عاطفي يتأثر بهذه المتاضر حتى وان كان قاتله وهذه هي مشكلته حيث يستغله الطغاة ليحكموه. بهلول الحكيم Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Garrity Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Tom you could have gotten the same reading from Tom Friedman of the NY Times months ago. But then you not being a leftie probably don't read him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salim Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Again , strange to keep hearing that Iraqis are feeling humilated by Saddam show. Almost all "excluding those pro Saddam while killing his people" were feeling extreem joy. There were some who felt sorry for having such suffering on the hand of what turned to be a scary rat! As for Tom's And Iraqis must learn about history, how difficult, nearly impossible, any insurrection against a dictator is when the dictator is willing to kill. And his troops follow orders to murder. indeed that was what Iraqis kept telling the world over the last thirty years..NO new finding for Iraqis at least..Just to prove their's. مره اخرى , غريب ان نضل نسمع من يقول ان العراقيين شعروا بالذل وهم يشاهدون فلم صدام. جميع العراقيين "عدا المناصرين لصدام اثناء قتله لشعبه" كاموا يشعرون بالفرح العارم. هناك البعض ممن انتابه حزن من ان كل هذه المصائب انما اتت على يد فار جبان. تعليق توم من ان العراقيين عليهم ان يعرفوا انه ليس من السهوله اسقاط الجبابره بواسطه الشعوب عندما يكون الدكتاتور مستعدا للقتل ولديه المؤيدين " في الحقيقه هذا ما كان العراقيين يصرخون للعالم به على مدى الثلاثين سنه . لاجديد في ذلك للعراقين على الاقل لانه يثبت مقولتهم Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeArab Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Perhaps the feeling is that Saddam was way way up there. Then when they finally caught him, he looked just like an Iraqi village elder. ...and Iraqi Village Elder.... THAT is the image the brain works with from this moment on...so when they say all the frisking being done to this man, it wasnt frisking Saddam...it was frisking an Iraqi Village Elder, who could be anyone - the Coalition has the power to go after anyone it wants, and frisk any unwanting elder. Perhaps it is the fact that this can be done it what is humiliating. I think another theory I would put forward is that everyone associated Saddam's rise to power as maybe, how one Iraqi from squalor came to power, and the rise to power would earn him a "wow" from almost anyone. Then to see this Iraqi chap suddenly come down, almost seems to say "they brought down the best of iraq". ---------------------- Even though I am Arab, and proud of it, I will say this to people who claim that Saddam was an Arab leader. Listen, if Saddam is an example of an Arab leader, by the way he came to power, by his actions, by his convictions and beliefs, ... then I dont want to be Arab! Perhaps we can say this: Saddam was never an Arab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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