How will religious freedom work in Iraq

[JCHFleetguy]

Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom

 

Obviously, I do not believe Iraqi's should copy American forms of government (esp those created in 1786); but I have found the discussion of questions on the relationship of the Iraqi government to Islam and other religions abstract.

 

The political background is that the US was mainly populated by people escaping from Europe and the religious oppression by christian official religions in many countries. Jefferson was really a deist who wrote his own version of the Bible editing out the virgin birth, all the miracles, and the resurrection.

 

The signers of the US Constitution represented about 10-15 christian sects.

 

So I am curious what Iraqi's interested in this subject really think about Jefferson's thesis. This law was the basis of the US Constitution's Separation Clause for religion.

 

Since its age makes it hard for me to read, if someone can do a decent translation into Arabic that would be great.

[Guest Guest_Mutergem]

Since its age makes it hard for me to read, if someone can do a decent translation into Arabic that would be great

 

 

Seems to me, it needs a translation to current English first!

[JCHFleetguy]

Yes, but I am hesitant to mess with original text in case my "translation" change the meaning. Hate to be accused of leading the jury

[salim]

Some one might here put Islamic groups as the religous freedom limiting force, however the statement by the head of the Chatholic church in Iraq, Mr. Daly, was disappointing. He accused the US Protestatnt church missions of trying to convert some Iraqi chatholic to Protestant.. He said that this should not be allowed.. He went more to use this as excuse for the terrorist attacks on some churchs in Iraq.

 

In Arab and Moslim world, we used to hear such complains by Moslims clergy, but having it by Chatholic is a new one..

Anyhow I think religous freedom should be extended not only to the right of practicing but the right of choose.

 

 

ربما يعتقد البعض ان تحديد الحريات الدينيه مرتبط بالمؤسسات الدينيه الاسلاميه ولكن تصريحات بطريرك الكاثوليك العراقيين , البطريرك دالي, كانت اكثر من مفاجئه. فقد اتهم الكنيسه الانجليكيه الامريكيه بمحاوله تحويل الكاثوليك الى برتستانت في العراق.. بل دهب لابعد من دلك عند اعتماده هده الادعاء لتبريره لبعض العمليات الارهابيه على بعض الكنائس

 

بالدول الاسلاميه نحن متعودين على تهم من هدا النوع من قبل رجال الدين المسلمين ولكن ان تاتي من رجال دين كاثوليك فهدا امر جديد

على كل حال اعتقد ان الحريه الدينيه يجب ان لا تعني حريه الممارسه فقط بل ان تمتد الى حريه الاختيار ايظا

[JCHFleetguy]

Ok this is large but I cannot link something on my computer. Heres my outline of Jefferson:

 

Whereas:

1) Almighty God has created the mind free;

 

2) that all attempts to influence it by earthly punishments or burdens:

a ) tend only to cause habits of hypocrisy and malice,

b ) are a departure from the plan of the God, who chose not to spread His plan by coercions on mind or body, as it was in his Almighty power to do;

 

3) that legislators and rulers (civil as well as clerical), in sinful presumption (being themselves but fallible and uninspired men):,

a ) have assumed power over the faith of others,

b ) set up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others,

c ) have established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time;

 

4 ) that to compel a man to furnish money for the spread of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical;

 

5) that even forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own creed:,

a ) is depriving him of the right of giving his aid to a particular teacher,

i ) whose morals he would make his pattern, and

ii )whose instruction he feels most influential to virtue, and

b ) withdraws from his favored teacher the aid that would be an added stimulus to the teacher’s instruction of mankind;

 

6) that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry;

 

7) that therefore making any citizen unable to assume public office unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him of those privileges and advantages to which he has a natural right;

 

8) that it tends only to corrupt the principles of that religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing with a monopoly of worldly honors those who will externally profess and conform to it;

 

9) that though indeed these are criminal who do not withstand such temptation [to falsely profess and conform], yet neither are those innocent who tempt them to do this;

 

10) that to allow the judge to impinge his powers into the field of opinion, and to control the profession or spread of principles on belief in their incorrectness, is a dangerous myth, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because:

a ) the judge will make his opinions the rule, and

b ) approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they agree or disagree with his own;

 

11) that it is time enough for the purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when those principles lead to overt acts against peace and good order; and finally,

 

12) that:

a ) Truth is great and will prevail if left alone

b ) Truth is the proper and ample opponent to error, and

c ) Truth has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless humans remove truth’s natural weapons: free argument and debate, (since errors cease to be dangerous when they are freely contradicted):

[JCHFleetguy]

Salim,

 

I think this is no religious group that has not been guilty of limiting others freedom if allowed.

[Guest Guest]

 

 

"عندما تخشى الحكومة الناس فهذه حرية، أما عندما يخاف الناس من الحكومة فهذا هو الطغيان".

توماس جيفرسون

 

When governemnts fear people, that is freedom. When people fear from governement , that is tyrany" T. Jeferson