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Poll: 75% of U.S. Jews plan to vote for Kerry


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For pro AlJazeera TV channel from Arabs and Muslims .... can you comment on this.

 

This is a new article on the same issue.

 

Jews overwhelmingly support Kerry

This looks plausible. What does it mean to you?

 

To me, it implies that republicans might someday reduce their support for zionism.

 

Traditionally voters who were most likely to oppose zionism tended strongly to be liberals, and democrats. They voted for Dem politicians who took a strong zionist stand because they preferred them on all other issues and typically the republican politicians did the same. Small numbers of antisemites voted republican for the same reasons.

 

If republicans can't get the jewish vote even when they bend over backwards with their heads between their thighs, perhaps someday they will court the moslem vote. They tend to need campaign money less then democrats, which would give them more freedom to do that.

 

So in 4 years or 6 years moslems may have better choices than Nader.

 

In the short run I hope Kerry wins. We know what to expect from Bush, we've seen him in action. There's reason to hope that Kerry is lying about what he will do, so we can't be sure about him. I'd rather vote for a small hope than for no hope.

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JThomas's

This looks plausible. What does it mean to you?

 

For me, It was not .. For an Arab that is fed by Aljezera like propaganda, it was kind of fully unexpected..

The Arab media keep telling us that the Jews are the one who brought Bush to power and that Bush is no more than a puppet in the hand of the Jews.. They are relying on this to say that all what Bush is doing in Iraq is no more than a a Jew agenda to destroy the Muslim world.

Now from this very credible poll and reports, seems to me that this is not true.. That Republicans , who might be willing to do their best to get the jews blessings, are not the Jews favorite.. On the contrary, Jews are publicly working so hard to move them away, that was the case in the last ellection and it is in this next one.. Seems it is historically always the case..

 

This would flag a lot of questions about the reasons.. While such questions might be important in America, for Arab what should be important is, why our Arab "Jezera like" are telling the other way..

I don't want to go into deep analysis and conspiracy theories, but I would like any fellow Arab to think about it.

That is why I did asked for comments. It is not the elections side , it is our side.. Are we so penetrated ? Are we foolish to this extent that we don't know what seems to be a very basic fact in American politics?

I used to ask some fellow Arab friends who lived in US for long time about such thing, I never got any such understanding.. They always though that the Jews are supporting both and would go for the winner.. This seems , according to the above as nonsense..

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JThomas's

This looks plausible. What does it mean to you?

 

For me, It was not .. For an Arab that is fed by Aljezera like propaganda, it was kind of fully unexpected..

The Arab media keep telling us that the Jews are the one who brought Bush to power and that Bush is no more than a puppet in the hand of the Jews.. They are relying on this to say that all what Bush is doing in Iraq is no more than a a Jew agenda to destroy the Muslim world.

Now from this very credible poll and reports, seems to me that this is not true.. That Republicans , who might be willing to do their best to get the jews blessings, are not the Jews favorite.. On the contrary, Jews are publicly working so hard to move them away, that was the case in the last ellection and it is in this next one.. Seems it is historically always the case..

 

This would flag a lot of questions about the reasons.. While such questions might be important in America, for Arab what should be important is, why our Arab "Jezera like" are telling the other way..

I don't want to go into deep analysis and conspiracy theories, but I would like any fellow Arab to think about it.

That is why I did asked for comments. It is not the elections side , it is our side.. Are we so penetrated ? Are we foolish to this extent that we don't know what seems to be a very basic fact in American politics?

I used to ask some fellow Arab friends who lived in US for long time about such thing, I never got any such understanding.. They always though that the Jews are supporting both and would go for the winner.. This seems , according to the above as nonsense..

I see!

 

This is hard for americans to discuss. People think it is rude to discuss anything jewish if you are not jewish yourself.

 

The way I understand it, which might not be completely right, is that american jews tend to vote for democrats. American jews who are zionists will vote for whichever candidate gives more support to israel. And if you are running for office and your opponent does not support israel enough, you will get plenty of money to spend to get elected.

 

Most american politicians believe that if they don't give enough support to israel they will get TV stories saying they are bad for other reasons, and they will lose. Almost all republican and democrat politicians give total support to israel. So american zionists can usually vote for whichever they want for other reasons.

 

People say that about 2% of the american population is jewish. I think there are no good statistics about that. It is hard to measure. My sister married a jewish man and she goes to a Reform synagogue which is organised a lot like the christian Methodist church she attended as a child. Many jews would say she is not jewish though she says she is and her children are. Many people who say they are jewish are not religious. It is all confused. Peopls say that the jewish vote is particularly important for presidential elections because so many jews are in important states like New York and Florida. Maybe jewish voters are not as important as campaign money and what the media says. But anyone who says that there is much jewish influence on the media gets called antisemitic. When someone important says that, the media spends a lot of time calling them antisemitic, the media explains that no civilised person would say such a thing.

 

People say that there are a lot of christian voters who are zionists. The claim is that these people want the israelis to restore the temple because the christian book of Revelation says that the temple will be rebuilt in jerusalem before christ will return. Since they want christ to return and bring the end of the world as soon as possible, they want a strong israel to rebuild the temple. I have never met anyone in person who told me they believed this, though I have met a few on the internet. Probably people like that would refuse to talk to me. If they exist, they will vote republican as consistently as jews vote democrat.

 

I don't know how important zionists were in getting Bush elected. It is plausible they may have been important. Clinton had tried to make the israelis agree to a deal with the palestinians. He failed at that, but some zionists were angry that he tried. They might have worked against Gore because of that. Gore also took a strong zionist position, though.

 

I think if the zionists put Bush in they did not do so very effectively. He almost lost. A few votes from american citizens living in israel who mailed their votes to florida may have been important, but it could just as easily have been something else.

 

I would not be surprised if Al Jazeera reports american politics just as simply and wrongly as the american media report iraqi politics.

 

We hear that there is a strong movement in iraq to get a religious government like iran, but hardly any iraqis want that. I wonder, if so few iraqis want it why is it such a danger? Our media says that Al Sadr cannot be allowed into the government because he wants the US troops to leave and he wants a religious government like iran, and he is very unpopular. And I wonder, if he is unpopular why not let him run for office and lose?

 

We only hear about a few parties -- al Dawa, SCIRI, Allawi's party -- and we hear very little about what they want. Mostly we hear whether they're sunni/shia/kurd. Anybody who's Shia that we don't like gets accused of being controlled by the iranians. Maybe that is our equivalent of Al Jazeera saying who's controlled by the zionists.

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This is hard for americans to discuss. People think it is rude to discuss anything jewish if you are not jewish yourself.

Please don't understand me wrong.. My reference to Jews should not be mixed with any antisemisim, it is on the contrary.. I am trying to high light a fact that there is a big Arab short fall in understanding the world. This should be nailed to simplicity and shallowness when it comes to professional media like Aljezera and other Arab propaganda tools even the governmentally supported ones. This part of a plan..

Let me explain my point. In the fourtees, and fifties, there was some violence in some Arab countries against local Jews.. Most historians, in including some academic researches, were pointing to government role in encouraging that violence which had forced those Jews to leave their beloved countries heading to Israel.. Something the that was very critical for the new born state. Some of Arab scholars claimed that this was motivated by Zionists, having in mind that the Arab governments, at least in Egypt and Iraq, where controlled by British.

On the same line , the Arab media is still pushing toward the mix between what Jew and what is Zionist.. The media in encouraging the hatred against Jews.. I Think this might be same old story.. Jews need to feel that they are really threatened by Arabs, so they keep their support for the Israeli state as the only safe havens that would protect the Jews rights.

I have the feeling, though might be very simplistic, that all the terrorist activities that the terrorist Salafees are doing today in hitting the Americans , is by one way or another , just another example of such theory.. I keep wondering " How it is possible that these Salfees can execute such sensitive targets and plans, while they are not able to even one such awful act against Israel..?" Keeping in mind the strong support by some Palestinians to such calls..

The way I understand it, which might not be completely right, is that american jews tend to vote for democrats. American jews who are zionists will vote for whichever candidate gives more support to israel. And if you are running for office and your opponent does not support israel enough, you will get plenty of money to spend to get elected.

Fully agree, and thanks for putting it so clear.. We need to isolate ordinary peace loving Jew from Zionism as a political party. I personally know a lot of Jews, they just like any other that are doing their best for their families, communties and country.

We only hear about a few parties -- al Dawa, SCIRI, Allawi's party -- and we hear very little about what they want. Mostly we hear whether they're sunni/shia/kurd. Anybody who's Shia that we don't like gets accused of being controlled by the iranians. Maybe that is our equivalent of Al Jazeera saying who's controlled by the zionists.

I don't believe in good causes!.. These are giant media structures that serve certain agenda.. Simplicity might be a case for primitives like Alsader or Yemen TV, but not for these..

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  • 2 weeks later...

http://www.alquds.co.uk/index.asp?fname=20...أفضل%20للعربfff

 

In Arabic.. An Arab scholar thinks that going for Bush might be better from Arab prospectives.. The problem with such calls is that it is comming from a basic understanding that Arab should vote according to the Israeli-Palistine conflict.. While this might be an issue, there are so many other factors to be considered as being Americans from Arabic origin..

 

للناخبين العرب والمسلمين كما اسلفنا اسباب اكثر من معقولة لرفض جورج بوش الذي اعلن عمليا الحرب علي العرب، وتفوق في حماسه لاسرائيل علي كل رئيس سابق بشهادة أنصار اسرائيل انفسهم. ولكن كيري لن يكون بحال افضل كثيرا من وجهة نظر المصالح العربية، فالديمقراطيون كما هو معروف مناصرون متحمسون لاسرائيل، وهذا هو عين السبب الذي دفع بالعرب والمسلمين لتفضيل بوش علي آل غور منافسه الديمقراطي في الانتخابات السابقة.

ولكن يبدو ان التصويت للديمقراطية هذه المرة سيكون تكرارا لخطأ الناخبين المسلمين في انتخابات عام 2000 وليس اصلاحا له. ذلك ان رئيسا ينتخب لفترة اولي سيكون مهموما باعادة انتخابه لفترة ثانية، مما يوقعه للأجتهاد في كسب ود اللوبي الصهيوني والتنكر للعرب والمسلمين. وهذا هو بالضبط ما كان بوش يفعله.

ولكن الرئيس في فترته الثانية يكون زاهدا الي حد كبير في الدعم السياسي المباشر، ومهتما اكثر بتخليد اسمه في التاريخ عبر انجازات مهمة، ولهذا كان كلينتون مشغولا في فترته الثانية بترتيب اتفاق فلسطيني ـ اسرائيلي يرتبط باسمه.

التصويت لكيري اذن هو تصويت لفترة اخري من التهافت الامريكي الرسمي علي اسرائيل، والتنكر لقضايا العرب. اما نجاح بوش، لو تحقق فقد يتيح فرصة اكبر لاستقلال نسبي للحكومة الامريكية عن تل ابيب، وربما محاولة خجولة باتجاه التوازن

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Guest Guest_tajer

http://www.aljeeran.net/viewarticle.php?id...pg=index&art=mp

 

In Arabic..

Iraqi women Alsaweg, speach in the republican convention 2004..

 

وقالت السويج في مثيرة عاصفة من التصفيق والهتاف من آلاف أعضاء الوفود إلى المؤتمر: "حين جئت إلى الولايات المتحدة من العراق قبل 12 سنة، لم يكن بمقدوري إطلاقاً أن أتخيل نفسي أتحدث في جمع كهذا. فأثناء حياتنا إبان حكم صدام حسين، لم يكن يُسمح لنا بالتجمع كما نفعل الآن لمناقشة أمور كالديمقراطية والحرية."

وأضافت: "إن كل ما كنا نستطيع القيام به هو أن نحلم بيوم يمكننا فيه التكلم بحرية وعبادة الله بالطريقة التي نختارها. وكنا نعيش، بدلاً من ذلك، تحت حكم مجرم استخدم كل سلاح في ترسانته ضدنا، من الدبابات إلى زنزانات التعذيب إلى الغازات السامة

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An Arab scholar thinks that going for Bush might be better from Arab prospectives.. The problem with such calls is that it is comming from a basic understanding that Arab should vote according to the Israeli-Palistine conflict.. While this might be an issue, there are so many other factors to be considered as being Americans from Arabic origin..

If palestine is your main concern, both candidates look so bad that it hardly matters which you pick.

 

We have seen what Bush did in the last 4 years, so it's completely reasonable to expect more of the same.

 

If I was voting based on palestine, I migbt vote for Kerry on the hope that he's lying about what he'd do.

 

Or I might vote for Nader knowing that he couldn't win, and hope that in a later election someone might try to get the votes that went to Nader this time.

 

For myself, as an american, I will vote against Bush. Jesus said to forgive him because he doesn't know what he's doing. I forgive him but I don't want him to keep doing it.

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http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/03/news/econo...dex.htm?cnn=yes

 

Employment rate is beating expectations!

Well, no. What has happened is that -- according to the polls -- a lot of people who used to be looking for work have given up looking. They only count as unemployed if the government worker calls them on the phone and asks them if they have a job and they say no, and then they get asked if they are actively looking for work and they say yes.

 

If they say they aren't trying to find a job, they aren't unemployed. The percentage of people who *do* have jobs has not gone up. And it's still down from when Bush became president. There were about a million more jobs then than there are now.

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http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0904/170696.html

 

 

Bush leads by 11 points

 

Poll: Bush Leads by 11 Points During RNC 

UPDATED - Friday September 03, 2004 6:49pm 

 

 

Washington (AP) - President Bush (website - news - bio) leads Democrat John Kerry (website - news - bio) , 52 percent to 41 percent, while independent Ralph Nader (website - news - bio) got 3 percent in a national poll taken during the Republican National Convention that ended Thursday.

 

The Time magazine poll of 926 likely voters was taken Aug. 31-Sept 2, during the convention and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

 

Bush had 46 percent, Kerry had 44 percent and Nader 5 percent in a Time poll taken just before the convention.

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  • 4 weeks later...

http://www.aljeeran.net/viewarticle.php?id...pg=index&art=mp

 

In Arabic... Kerry attacking Alawi for the optimistic rosy picture that he drew about future of democratic process in Iraq. Under instability in some cities, Kerry thought the elections might be better delayed all over Iraq...

Indeed I was so disappointed by Kerry's statement... It is very clear to me that this is no more than politically driven view... He wanted to use the current escalation by terrorists in some areas as a tool to attack those who are defending Iraq and the world from the danger of terror. We need to be sure that the war in Iraq today is the front of the war on terror... Charlie Rose in his meeting lately with an Egyptian official asked “Why these terrorist are more brutal in Iraq?” Thought the official tried not to answer clearly, I think that because the terrorist knows that this is their real war... While escaping from Afghanistan with no serious resistance, they are sending most of their robots to Iraq!

While this might be expected by a candidate that never sticks with a very clear strategy, I am very worried by this message by Kerry... Such message that would for sure encourage the terror to hit the American very badly in hopping to change the Americans voters against the other candidate. We need to understand that all what they are doing is to achieve the delay of election as a step to stop the democratic process... Something that would blow up their claims that what is happening in Iraq today is not supported by majority of Iraqis. Indeed it isn't Kerry alone that I found sending such message; there are many reporters in the western media that are helping such objectives. In his question to Pres. Bush, one journalist mentioned that some Polls were saying that majority of Iraqis are looking bad to the liberation of Iraq by the Americans!

Two months ago when Kerry surprisingly talked about the necessity of hitting harder the terrorist in Iraq and to increase the troops over their, in a step that he contradicts later, I felt that Kerry is sending a very good message to the terrorists. Hitting America in this critical election time would make them no good. It was very clear message that I noticed it's reflection in the terrorist/Salafees web sites and Arab nationalistic media...” Kerry is no better than Bush"!!

In the last two days, I started to notice the impact of the other message , and sorry to say it , the encouraging one!..

I really feel very worried and need some one to get my message to Kerry's propaganda consultants...

Our beloved American kids and people must be more important than political agendas!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Kerry Gaining in Personal Ratings, but Bush Maintains Lead

 

Please follow this Link

 

Vote preferences are essentially unchanged, with President Bush maintaining a lead in this first ABC News tracking poll of the 2004 election — in the horse race, and on top issues and attributes alike. But enthusiasm for Bush lost ground, and Kerry, by improving his basic acceptability, clearly has revived what recently was a struggling effort.
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Kerry and Bush are both american politicians. They try to say things that will look good to american voters, and they try to make each other look bad.

 

I am not clear about the place of the american military in iraq. I get the strong impression that they don't do much to protect iraqis from violent criminals, or from terrorists or insurgents. What they can do is to keep insurgents from declaring that they are the local government. If insurgents take over an iraqi city and kill the politicians who oppose them and say that they're running the city, the US military can go in and kill them unless they run away, and then appoint a new local government. And we can kill iraqis who shoot at us, perhaps killing innocent civilians also.

 

I get the strong impression that the US army doesn't really understand iraqis, and mostly doesn't speak the language, and it's hard for us to do a lot of good because of that. So what Bush and Kerry both want to do is to train iraqi soldiers and police to maintain security, and then pull the US soldiers out -- either out of iraq completely or into isolated bases where they don't have much interaction with iraqis.

 

Also, if iraq could be policed by iraqis then the US military would be free to invade iraq. I'm not sure whether the Bush administration still intends to do that or not.

 

Americans look at iraq mainly in terms of the US military. We look at US casualties (we usually only hear about the deaths, not about the badly wounded). We look at iraqi casualties. (The military said they wouldn't do "body counts" but when US soldiers get killed americans don't feel so bad if 10 times as many iraqis also are reported killed, and we can assume they were all insurgents.) From what I hear the US military is not doing particularly well in iraq just now. We are getting around 90 attacks a day when not so long ago it was only 20 attacks a day. The military announced that there were no-go zones where they didn't go except in large numbers looking for a fight. They quoted Fallujah, Samara, Baquba and Sadr City, and implied that there were many more. Recently they went into Samara in large numbers looking for a fight, and the insurgents ran away, and now we're saying Samara is pacified but I'm not clear what it will take to pull out the thousands of US troops and still be able to do small US patrols there.

 

US tactics for taking cities from insurgents are modeled on israeli tactics which are themselves modeled on nazi tactics. We don't hesitate to destroy a large building to kill one sniper. US/israeli tactics do minimise casualties to the attackers. To my way of thinking this would be a good reason for an insurgency to stay hidden and not announce that they have taken over cities. What good does it to them to announce it and get their city blown up?

 

When you look at it from an iraqi perspective it doesn't look so bad. But from an american military view it looks very bad. We can only hope that the insurgents are killing themselves in large numbers trying to interfere with the american elections, and after the elections they will be mostly killed off. But then, we have made that claim repeatedly. We thought they were killing themselves off for Saddam, but we caught Saddam and it got worse. We thought they were killing themselves to disrupt the handover to Allawi and afterward it got worse. Now we say it's the american elections, and after that we could say it's the iraqi elections. Our military can keep killing insurgents for a long time as long as the supplies keep flowing, but does it really help iraq?

 

I think maybe both candidates hope that an elected iraqi government will ask for US troops to leave. Then we could pull the troops out without dishonor. But they can't say that because it wouldn't sound good to american voters. So they come up with peculiar claims about what they would do, hoping that they won't have to keep their word or break it.

 

I would like to ask iraqis -- do US troops do more good than harm in iraq?

 

Would an elected government be likely to ask that US troops leave? How much training would an iraqi army/police need before the government would do that? (There's reason to hope that iraqi military units would be more spirited and competent fighting for a real iraqi government than fighting for the US military. So their abilities might be better than they look now.)

 

There is a strong chance that a US government would stop sending reconstruction funds if the US military left iraq. It depends a lot on how it's done. If it looked like a mutual decision -- iraq is doing well now, US troops are no longer needed, our good friends thank us and say we can go now, then if iraq had difficulties later americans would have bitter disputes about whose fault it was. Say iraq got a government where religious figures were not irrelevant, we would fight about whether the US president made the iraqi government invite us out because he wanted out too early. If the iraqi government was a bit ruder about insisting we leave then it wouldn't be the President's fault that he had to keep his word and go. But we would likely be angry at the iraqi government and want to cut off aid. There might be some way to do it that avoids both issues, but I don't know what it would be.

 

Would it be worth losing US reconstruction aid to get rid of the US army? Or -- to repeat -- is the US military doing more good than harm in iraq? Another question -- is there a way the US military could do more good and less harm than it's doing now, that the US military might be competent to perform?

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